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There are a lot of reasons why 2 large pumps are better than 4 small ones.
The first thing to understand is all of the high-end therapy hot tubs are using every bit of available electrical power allowed. What this means is simple… if we are maxing out the power with two pumps and we go to 4 pumps those 4 pumps have to be 1/2 the size in terms of electrical power… This fact is often is hidden because hot tub guys quote the horsepower of the pump head, not the electric motor driving the pump 🙂 Crazy right??? I can put a huge 6 hp pump head on a tiny little motor and tell you it is a 6hp pump…lmfao! But we can not get away from the scientific fact that there are only so many amps of electrical current available and using more pumps is simply a gimmick designed to make more profit from you and actually reduces the performance and efficiency of your hot tub and here is why…
- Efficiency
- Bigger pumps are more efficient than smaller pumps, larger pumps offer efficiencies of 75% to 93% and the smaller ones usually fall into the 50% to 70%
- This means that 3 x 2hp pumps are not going to perform nearly as well as one 6 hp pump
- So the more pumps we have the more power we waste and the less actual water pressure we get!!!
- Performance in the chair
- A 2 pump system not only has more power due to efficncy but it also can put more flow to a single chair.
- If we have 2 big pumps using all the available power with diverters then we can put one whole big pump into the main massage chair.
- if we have 4 pumps they have to be 1/2 the power of the big pumps and then each pump runs a chair so the best we can have is 1/2 the power to the chair. And ecause of the efficency loss we really only have about 3/4 of the power available.
Well, I ‘d rather have the small pumps to be honest
Trying to decide between a 2 pump or 3 pump Cal Spa hot tub. Is there any benefit or detriment to 3 3.0HP pumps over 2 3.0?
Not really… read this:
Hi Chris,
Your articles are very informative. I live in the mountains of North Carolina near Boone. My choices are limited to Hot Springs, Caldera, Jacuzzi, and Bullfrog dealers. A local hot tub service person is recommending Clearwater Spas. The nearest Master Spa and Marquis Spa dealers are over 2 hours away. I am trying to decide between Clearwater with perimeter insulation and two 5HP pumps or Bullfrog X series with two 2.5HP pumps. I would appreciate your insight.
I would say the bullfrog, the shell isn’t my prefered system but the insulation and parts and plumbing are good. Its the best of the options you are mentioning. The Calderas insulation systems is interesting I would think the R value is very close to the foam systems. but the parts are goofy
Awesome Site! We ‘accidentally’ purchased a Master Spa 15 years ago and it has been an excellent spa for us. Usual maintenance issues, (one plumbing leak- probably vibration, an impeller seal, foam headrest deterioration, and a heater replacement) but having multiply sourced parts made its’ maintenance a breeze. It’s time to replace it for more modern technology and building techniques. Do you have an opinion on variable speed motors? ECM type rather than PCM? My understanding is they are much more energy efficient motors. I’ve learned from your site that insulation is the biggest energy loss in our Colorado climate,… Read more »
Hi Russell It hasn’t been much of an issue because almost everyone uses the same basic type of PSC (Permanent split capacitor) motors, there are small differences in the longevity and flow curves but they are basically the same machines with variances in the quality of build. The downside to these motors in some applications is that they generate excessive heat but in a hot tub where we reclaim the heat pretty efficiently that’s not such a big downside. While they are no super efficient (around 60% max) most of the inefficiency is lost to generated heat which again is… Read more »
One of my pumps is out in my spa, and my motherinlaw needs to replace her pool pump with an energy efficient pump for her high electric rates in Indiana, and in my investigation into the AO Century VGreen pumps, I noticed that pool pumps and spa pumps have a lot of crossover, and wondered as to ECM motor application in spas. I don’t know of any spas currently using them. When I monitor my electric usage, the spa heater uses the most power in my home here in chilly Colorado. You answered my question wonderfully. Thank you for the… Read more »
Hey Chris, We live in Connecticut, so Winters are cold. We’re adding on a new patio and want to include a 5-6 person tub. I am totally new to the market, but near me are dealers for Artesian, HotSpring, Caldera and Master. I need to keep the price below 10k, but Caldera seems to be about the only option. I’m not what you’d call a hot tub afficianado…just want something reliable and comfortable for after work soaking and occasional entertaining. Would I really be making a mistake with Caldera? Thanks for any advice you can give. AND for putting all… Read more »
Dude for sure I would go either the Master or the Artesian.
The parts are better and easier to source and competitively priced, I don’t like these brands that make parts to just fit their spa so they can hammer you forever for overpriced cheap parts. you want a good standard parts list you can get anywhere competitively priced. It’s a big issue.
Thanks again, will take your advice.
Cheers!
Hello!
We are a family of 5 looking for very large hot tub in moncton NB. We often entertain with other families , so we are looking for 8-10 persons spa.
We looked at :
Hydropool 1038 vs coast spa mirage curve.
Your opinion would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks!!
of those two brands the Coast spa but…
it’s very rare for me to get requests from my local area most of this comes from the US where the site ranks super high. But I guarantee you I have over 200 spas in Moncton with a 5-star service rating on Google and BB A+ and a store opening there in the spring… I literally send a truck a week down there 🙂
Wonderful job with this forum. Thank you so much for educating us and all your honest advice. Looking for a therapy spa for aches and pains. What is the difference between Master Spas Twilight and Healthy Living lines? And
Jetting and performance.
look at the size of the jets, the little jets are inexpensive and put out a small volume of water under high pressure, they feel abrasive and don’t really have the volume of water to penetrate into deep muscle. The big 5″ jets are expensive and flow a lot more water, they really move muscle mass and require bigger pomps and in the case of Twilight they also let you divert entire pumps into one main seat… they are chalk and cheese Healthy living is like most companies top tubs, Twilight is just a massage monster…
In doing more research, we’re now looking into the Marquis Epic or Reward. Would love to get your input. The size of the jets look similar for both of these. Thanks again for your help!
Chris, really love the website. I am looking at the Bullfrog spas. Any impressions on this brand.. Thanks
One of the biggest costs in a hot tub is the shell. and it’s the single most crucial part and there s simply no better or more expensive way to do this than to build a hand rolled fiberglass acrylic shell with a Vinyl ester resin core. The ABS shells and rigidizing polymers like Bullfrog were all the rage 20 years ago and the reality is the failure rate on these shells were way higher. Most guys have gone back to the true path. Im also not a big fan of the jet packs, it makes it super expensive to… Read more »
Hello Love your website and advice. We live in England., UK. We are looking at buying a South Seas 748ldx from a local dealer with excellent reviews over a number of years. He is a one man band. He recommends we stick to part foam insulation rather than full foam insulation so that we can access the equipment if there are problems. We have wet tested this tub along with others and like it. However we are not sure if the insulation he is proposing is adequate.; please advise. We liked Arctic Spas insulation concept but the local agent does… Read more »
I would say the Artesian (south seas) is a better spa by a long shot, Arcticis great at the branding and marketing but the tub uses a lot of i9nexpensive parts, insulation and does not even clamp the plumbing lines.
I would go with the full foam, they use an opencelled foam so leak detection is not a huge issue and they glue and clamp the plumbing lines so it much less likely to leak.
Could you list the best hot tubs, please. Thank you.
I like:
Any of the Master spas (Twilight, MP legends, Clarity, Legacy…
Marquis
Artesian
beachcomber non hybrid models
Hi Chris
I am in the process of organising a crane to lift a Michael Phelps Legend 8 over my bungalow roof in U.K.
There wasn’t the option of buying a Twilight which you recommend but how do you rate the MP8?
It has 4 pumps but one is just for circulation.
Regards Lenny
It’s a great spa I prefer the Twilight for the therapy but the Phelps also performs well and is simply a beautiful tub. I’m not a fan of the circ pumps option, they are really picky about how clean yer filters are.
Thank you.
I’m hoping that because i will be using the MP8 on my own 95 percent of the time that the filter won’t be too much of an issue?
Hi Chris, really interesting you find the Twilight a better therapy tub than the Phelps which Master Spas flagship ? How so ? Just intrigued as the Phelps looks very similar to a twilight to me but with 3 hyrotherapy pumps as opposed to 2 and more jets.
Hi Andy.
They are both great spas and we are splitting hairs but here is why I like it 🙂
The twilight can actually flow more water through the main therapy seat and monster jets which is all I care about 🙂
read this
Looking for a large, simple hot tub for cottage on Higgins Lake, Northern Michigan. Have 7 grandchildren who get cold in the lake or after tubing and want to warm up and go out into the lake again. Chimney Specialists in Gaylord sells Nordic hot tubs with Balboa heating and manufactured in US. prices are 4 to 6 thousand – they have 2 to 3 ” of foam insulation and the shell is made of ABS plastic. The store is close to our cottage. What do you think?
Marie
I know Nordic. great tub, the insualtion is the only weak part but its not terrible, just not top of the pile… good bank for the buck…
Hi Chris
We’re in Cornwall, UK and like so many others on here, are feeling v over whelmed trying to choose the right spa for us.
It is between
– LA San Juan SE and Artesian Antigua – 33 jets.
The LA San Juan has more jets and speakers but not foam insulated.
The Artesian dealer is v nice but only been operating 2yrs.
The LA spa dealer has been operating 20+ yrs.
In your opinion which would be your preference?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Becky
tough call i like the artesian better but 2 yrs vs 20 is a lot…
i posted something about a week ago asking some questions. Do you delete some posts?
no, I don’t delete unless it’s crazy spam or someone trying to put up sales crap 🙂
repost, it might have been an error. sorry !
I have watched all of your videos and read every comment/blog. Trying to do the best with the information you provide. I just dumped a second hand Reflections line (Vita) spa after developing its first obvious leak after 9 years of ownership. We discovered it had some rot as well, so we canned it My question entails your opinion on refurbished tubs from a reputable dealer. I’ve found a Master Spas LSX 557 that has been refurbished by a reputable hot tub dealer for an affordable price point . My concern is that it’s 10 years old – 2006. They… Read more »
10 Year old spa of any brand is always a risk.
But you can get some great deals.
1. If the shell is good after 10 years its good for life
2. What did their refurb actually include?
3.Will they guarantee it for any length of time?
Hi we are looking at an artesian grand Bahama elite. Any thoughts priced at $10200 ? Stopping at local master dealer also tomorrow. Thanks
Hi Kevin.
Both super spas from a build quality.
The artisan do not do anything in the crazy therapy range like the Twilight spa but compete nicely from a performance standpoint to the Healthy Living and Clarity lines.
hi there, I’m in Ontario and would really like to know what would be a wiser choice. I have completely turned my mind to mush figuring out what I want..i have narrowed it down to Arctic SPa(legend 3 pump w spaboy swimspa) or masterspa H2x trainer 15 . Please tell me why I should pick one over the other.
Hi Parv. Man I never get Swim Spa questions and I love swimmers and we were designing and selling swim spas back over 15 years ago in England of all places 🙂 The H2x is a far better swimmer for a tonne of reasons… 1. Both spas use hand rolled fibreglass shells and I Know the H2X uses vinyl ester barrier on the acrylic… Both Companies Spend a lot of money on the Shells. 2. The H2x is much deeper… The depth makes a massive difference both when just jacking around and when working out, especially if you plan to… Read more »
How does the ongoing maintenance cost compare between the H2x and Master’s large hot tubs? Also, we were looking at something like the H2x instead of a large twilight for the kids to play in but I’m wondering if we’ll be disappointed with the massage/therapy side of the H2x in comparison. Thanks! (Huge fan of your site)
Hey Travis
sorry for the delay!
I was on vacation 🙂
The running cost is a lot higher on a swimmer I would say close to twice.
The H2X uses the same therapy seat as The Twilight 🙂
This forum has been awesome and has helped me very much in my hot tub buying quest. I think we have nearly decided on the artesian grand cayman. I like that it has full foam insulation and balboa components and made in the USA. Any thing I should be concerned about. I am also curious about Clearwater spas, although I think their insulation is suspect, thoughts?
You hit it right on the head, the Artesian is a good spa but make sure you are getting the full foam upgrade… I know on their south seas line they don’t offer that as standard…