Articles
Proprietary Parts
Proprietary parts are used by manufacturers to increase corporate profits at the expense of you, the customer. They adversely affect your right to repair and take away your right to source competitively priced parts. For the manufacturer, they ensure a highly profitable return because they control the parts distribution and artificially inflate the price of these substandard parts. For you, the customer, it means that replacement hot tub parts are harder to find and significantly more expensive.
They will often market the use of these proprietary parts as a benefit for you claiming superior technology and better quality, but the reality is these parts are lower quality and often are designed with planned failure points to ensure that the parts fail at a regular interval. Even setting aside planned failures and obsolescence, hot tub parts do fail and wear out and you are going to be spending far more money than you should for replacement parts.
This leaves you the customer at the mercy of the hot tub manufacturer who will oftentimes discontinue the parts making small, often meaningless changes so that the part is no longer compatible with the existing hot tub parts forcing you to replace more than just the failed part! Another popular ploy is to make a hot tub part with other parts built into it, then offer very long warranties on the main part to make you believe that they are superior, but the warranty often excludes the parts built into the main part, and these parts are low end and have a high failure rate.
So now your lifetime guaranteed part fails but it's not the main part that failed, it's one of the built in parts that failed so they can avoid the warranty despite the fact that you have to replace the whole unit! A prime example of this is Watkins No-fault heater. The heater is guaranteed for a long time but the pressure sensor switch is built in and not removable and has a high failure rate. When the part fails it necessitates replacing the entire assembly but because the actual heater has not failed there is no warranty, despite the fact that you have to buy a new heater!
There is no Hot Tub out there from any manufacturer using proprietary hot tub parts that are better than the good standard parts, and oftentimes these substandard parts are 5-10 times the price of the better quality easily available parts. Several big corporate brands are doing this, including many brands like Hot Springs, Caldera, Endless pools and Arctic spas, who use proprietary heating and control systems and in some cases jetting systems like on the Vector line from Marquis.
There is not, to my knowledge, any manufacturer actually using proprietary parts for the consumers benefit. They are universally used to cost you money down the road and lock you into a vicious cycle of wasting resources and your money while damaging the environment, with this cycle of broken parts that end up in landfill and necessitate the use of energy and resources to keep making these parts, all in the name of massive corporate profits.
In my honest opinion, there is never a scenario where you should purchase hot tubs and swim spas made with proprietary hot tub parts.
Questions and Answers
Leah Gerken
Jul 21, 2025
Hi there. Thanks so much for all of your amazing information. We are new to hot tubs and have narrowed it down to 2 but are open to your suggestions. We don’t need all of the bells and whistles but just want a reliable one that seats at least 4, has jets for legs (calves, feet, etc), salt water, and will use for recovery and relaxation, want to try and spend less than 10k. Oh and easy to keep clean and maintain appropriate water levers?! The 2 we are looking at is hot springs hot spot collection relay on sale for 10,249 and the caldera spas tarino vacanza series. If we don’t go salt, was looking at a bull frog spa.
Chris - Admin
Hey Leah,
Thanks for the kind words—and you’ve actually done a pretty solid job narrowing it down. But here’s what you should know:
Hot Springs (Hot Spot Relay) and Caldera (Tarino) are basically the same tub. They’re both made in Mexico, and they’re both owned by Masco—one of the largest home improvement conglomerates in the world. So you’re not looking at two different companies here, you’re just comparing two versions of the same thing under different badges.
Their salt systems? They were the top dog for a while—better than anything else out there in the mass market. But the new Master Spas salt system that just launched changes the game. It runs at about 30% lower salt levels, produces half the chemical byproducts, and—here’s the kicker—it’s on-demand. That means it makes sanitizer only when your water needs it, not 24/7 like the Caldera/Hot Springs system, which is what we call a “dumb” system. Smart system = cleaner water, less wear and tear on components, and less hassle for you.
If you're trying to stay under 10K, we can probably beat that Hot Spot or Tarino price with a better-built tub and better salt system—and still stay in budget. And you won’t be dealing with corporate branding and markup. Let me know if you want some help pulling those numbers.
Bottom line: between the two you’re looking at, they’re okay—but you’ve got better options now. Let me know if you want me to set something up that checks all your boxes: leg jets, salt-ready, reliable, easy to clean, and under 10K.
Cheers,
Chris
Lisa Baker
Jul 21, 2025
Looking for guidance on my jacuzzi hot tub- I have owned it 7-10 years, had one pump replaced just after warranty expired (of course) and now have another one that has apparently gone out, plus a leak. Finally made an appointment with Galaxy for service and after a three week wait have one scheduled for next week. At what point should I stop paying for repairs and start looking at other options? I am in a rural area, so not always easy to get service providers out
Chris - Admin
Hey Lisa,
Yeah… this is exactly the kind of situation that drives me nuts.
You hear all the time from retailers and brand reps: “You have to buy local for support!” But then when the rubber hits the road—like in your case—you’ve got a major brand, a local dealer, and still a three-week wait just to get someone out to take a look. And that's with a leak and a dead pump. It’s not a great look, but unfortunately, it’s really common.
Here’s the deal: once your tub hits that 7–10 year mark, especially when it’s had a few major component failures (like pumps and leaks), you’re basically on the edge of the bathtub cliff. From here on out, it’s going to be death by a thousand cuts. You can throw another $1,000–$2,000 into it over the next few years—or start looking at the math on something new and more reliable.
Jacuzzi’s a big name, but a lot of that price tag is marketing and equity investor overhead. Most of their production has moved to Mexico, so on top of their higher build costs, you’re also paying tariffs. Compare that to a brand like Master Spas—they’re family-owned, still built in the U.S., don’t dump cash into marketing, and they run regional service and install depots instead of overloading dealers. So you can be in a rural area and still get solid support without the massive wait times.
When you’re finally ready to ditch the current one (and let’s be real, it’s tough to unload a leaking tub), I can get you set up with something bulletproof, built right, and supported properly—even where you are.
Mike Grgich
Jul 21, 2025
So glad we came across your site, so much helpful information !
After debating building a pool vs. swim spa we’ve decided to go with the swim spa as it offers year round usage and heath benefits.
That said we’re overwhelmed with the options of brands, models, etc. and hope you may be able to guide us in the right direction!
A couple parameters of importance to us;
- year round useage in our area which can experience harsh winter conditions so insulation and freeze protection is extremely important
- 15 ft length x 4-5ft depth
- primary use will be open area pool style lounging and light exercise so seating for 2-4 is ample
- “swim / training” aspect is not important so jetting can be minimal
Again your thoughts would be greatly appreciated !
Chris - Admin
Hey Mike,
Great call going with a swim spa instead of a pool, especially up where you are. The year-round usability, health perks, and way lower maintenance make it a no-brainer in a lot of colder climates. You're 100% right to prioritize insulation and freeze protection too—that's where a lot of brands cut corners, and it’ll bite you hard in a real winter.
That 4-5 ft depth is key if you're planning to do any cross-training, water aerobics, or even just stand and move around comfortably. Shallow swimmers can feel cramped fast. Master Spas' Trainer 15 Deep model hits that sweet spot perfectly.
Master is the biggest swim spa manufacturer in the world for good reason. The Trainer 15 Deep is your go-to—it’s built like a tank, has excellent insulation, and full foam, and is one of the few brands that still clamp their plumbing lines and hand-roll their shells. It’s got great seating for 2–4, and the jetting’s actually from their high-end Twilight Series, so you’re getting way more therapeutic value than most swimmer setups.
It’s also made in the U.S., so no tariffs, no equity investment nonsense, and more of your money is going into build quality—not branding.
Jacuzzi’s a solid brand, but they’re built in Mexico now and owned by a private equity firm, so pricing’s usually $1,000–$1,500 higher for what you get, mostly because of tariffs and marketing overhead. Still a reliable unit—just not as strong a value.
TidalFit used to be a serious contender, but they’ve slipped a bit since the equity investment buyout. They still build decent swimmers, but no longer clamp plumbing lines and the insulation isn’t quite on par with Master. Good jetting layouts and fair pricing, but not quite the long-haul unit Master is.
If you haven't started talking numbers yet, don’t give your name out just yet. I’ve got direct access to factory deals, and I can run it through the same supply pipeline without the retail markups, showroom costs, or middlemen.
Hit me back with what models or prices you’ve seen, and I’ll show you where to land that deal properly.
Cheers,
—Chris
Brian I
Jul 21, 2025
Hi Chris. Found your excellent site this evening after purchasing a Twilight 8.2 earlier today. Glad to hear Master makes good stuff but wondering, at 16k did we pay too much?
Chris - Admin
depends on the area and options
Jim Robbins
Jul 21, 2025
Thank you for all the great info on your website!
Do you know anything about Bradford Spas? The aesthetics look very nice but I can find almost no information about them online.
Chris - Admin
Yeah, Bradford Spas is a totally different animal than what we’re usually talking about here. They build stainless steel in-ground hot tubs, and it’s all custom, bespoke stuff. So right out of the gate, you’re dealing with a whole different industry—this isn’t your standard acrylic portable spa.
They seem legit, and the build quality looks good from what I’ve seen. But here’s the catch: those hard stainless angles? Not super comfortable. There’s not much going on with jet placement or massage capability, either. It’s more about the look and the luxury vibe—great if you want something slick to show off, not so great if you're chasing actual therapy massage performance.
Also, they’re crazy expensive. So if you’re after hot water and aesthetics and budget’s not a concern, sure, maybe it’s a fit. But if you’re looking for a serious massage spa? There are better options out there for a fraction of the cost.
James Cavagnaro
Jul 21, 2025
Hi Chris,
I’m in the market for a new hot tub. Had a Sundance some years ago and loved it. Never had any problems with it. I went to the same dealer we bought the last one from and wow, the prices knocked my socks off. Was looking at the Montclair and was quoted 4th of July pricing of $13,995 that came with a standard cover and standard step. I would prefer to have the cover that attaches to the tub and simply folds back behind when in use. I’m interested in this Montclair or something comparable from your recommended brands.
Chris - Admin
Hey James,
Yeah man, I feel you—it’s a bit of a punch in the face seeing the new pricing on tubs you remember as affordable and rock solid a few years back. That Montclair you’re looking at is still a decent tub, and Sundance has a good legacy, no doubt. But sadly, times have changed.
Sundance (along with Jacuzzi, Hydropool, and a few others) got scooped up by a private equity firm a while ago, and like most of these equity-owned brands, the focus isn’t really on spa quality anymore—it’s about maximizing profit margins. They’ve moved most of the production to Mexico, which brings a couple of big downsides: tariffs that jack up the price for U.S. buyers, and a shift in build philosophy that prioritizes cost-cutting over engineering. The result? Prices have gone up, but not because the tub got better—it’s all going to marketing, branding, and bottom-line profits.
Still a decent tub, but not the sweet spot anymore.
If you're looking for something similar or better, Master Spas is a killer alternative. Still family-owned, still built in the U.S., and they don't blow a fortune on advertising or brochures—which means the pricing is more real and you're paying for better components, not fairy dust.
The line that lines up well with Montclair would probably be something like the Clarity series or even Twilight if you want to stretch a bit. Great neck and shoulder jetting, full foam insulation, strong shells, and real plumbing clamp systems—they’re absolute tanks. And through us, they offer some exclusive deals and solid pricing we can help you tap into.
Honestly, you can't go too far wrong with Jacuzzi or Sundance, they still make some nice tubs—but for the price you're being quoted, you can absolutely do better.
Let me know if you want some specific recommendations or pricing options—we’ve got access to the dealers, and if you come through us, I can make sure your name stays out of the sales funnel and we keep your leverage. Easy peasy.
Cheers,
—Chris
Jason stade
Jul 20, 2025
Hi Chris
Such a great site with so much helpful info.
We are looking at buying our first hot tub for the family. We live in Alberta and are probably going to buy a used hot tub. I have seen you not a big fan of Strong Spa. There is a hot tub repair company in my area and talks good about them.
There is a used strong spa summit series I’m considering. It was Bought at the local dealer. Hoping to get more of your opinion on this brand or should I stay away and continue looking at other brands like
Master spa
Coast Spa
Dynasty Spa
ETC
Thanks
Chris - Admin
Hey Jason,
Thanks for the kind words—and yeah, buying your first hot tub can be a real rabbit hole, especially in the used market. So here’s the scoop:
Strong Spas? Meh. Not a fan. Sure, your local service guy likes them—of course he does. They're low-end tubs with almost zero insulation, cradle-supported shells, and lots of cut corners. But they’re super easy to work on, so they’re basically a service guy’s dream: regular breakdowns, easy access, and steady money. Doesn’t mean it’s a good tub for you. These things are mass merchant tubs with marketing polish, not quality guts.
If you’re buying used, you want something that’s going to last and not bleed you dry on service calls once the honeymoon ends. That Strong might look good now, but you could be throwing money at it every winter just trying to keep the heat in and the water flowing.
Now, Master Spas? Solid. Still privately owned, made in the U.S., tanks. Great support, solid builds, great for Alberta winters.
Coast? Trickier. They used to be solid, but they’ve had a rough few years and quality’s inconsistent. Some are fine, some are a disaster. Depends a lot on year and model. Risky buy used unless you know the full history.
Dynasty? Hard pass. Flashy, gimmicky, and not a lot under the hood. Build quality’s just not there. Wouldn’t touch one new, let alone used.
Your best bets? Master, Jacuzzi, Sundance. That’s your top 3 for quality builds and reliable long-term ownership. And if you want something affordable and new without breaking the bank, check out Instinct Spas—built by the same crew that makes Master, just stripped of the dealer overhead and showroom markup. They’re tanks too, and fully insulated for cold climates like Alberta.
So yeah, ditch the Strong, skip Dynasty, be cautious with Coast, and look at Master, Jacuzzi, Sundance, or Instinct. Let me know if you want help narrowing down models or digging into any specific listing—happy to help you steer clear of a lemon.
Cheers,
Sharon Zenk
Jul 20, 2025
Hi Chris. Im so glad I stumbled onto your site! I almost pulled the trigger on the Revive lounge version tub, but saw your reviews re: parts etc.
What could you suggest for around 10,000. We’re 8n Wisconsin and will need it for back therapy and water therapy for a child who is autistic.
Thank you for your reply.
Sharon
Chris - Admin
Hey Sharon,
So glad you found the site before you pulled the trigger on that Revive lounge thing—seriously, where do people even find these brands? I swear some of these companies crawl out from under rocks, slap together a handful of tubs with mystery parts, and call it a day. No clue what parts are in them or who’s going to service it when something goes sideways. Definitely a dodge-the-bullet situation there.
Now, as for your situation—hot tubs and autism? It's wild how effective the warm water can be. I’ve had so many families tell me how incredibly calming and grounding it is. The sensory element can be a total game changer. So yeah, you’re definitely on the right track.
If you’re sitting around that $10,000 USD mark, here’s what I’d look at:
Instinct’s really the one I’m recommending most right now in that price range. Good therapy setup, solid footwell jets, and really easy to keep clean. And if you ever have any issues, I throw in my personal buyer protection service, which means if something goes wrong, you text me directly, and I make sure it gets sorted.
Let me know if you want pricing or help locking one in. You’re on the right path. Happy to help however I can.
—Chris
Pat Moran
Jul 20, 2025
Hi guys, great job on answering all these questions. My question is on the master spa 2025 8.25 with the factory installed salt system do you still use the Eco Pur charge system? If not what two filter model numbers are used?Thanks
Chris - Admin
No you dont need eco pure or anything else with this new system...
Michelle Craig
Jul 20, 2025
Hi,
We are looking to purchase a hot tub for the first time. What features should we be looking for that we might not think about? size, lounge seat (or not), depth of foot well, location of jets are all things we are thinking of but we are sure there are other things to consider!
Chris - Admin
good thiunking about placement but there is a ton of stuff... https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisWheatley/videos
shells, plumbing, who makes them jettting type,
Jim f
Jul 20, 2025
Chris, I'm in information overload. Convinced myself to go with the instinct and then started reading too much about the massage capabilities and that opened Pandora box. We are a tall family (two at 6’8” with 36” inseams) with shoulder & neck pain, but too cheap to spend $15K unless you tell me I need to. And to be blunt the hot tub at the gym with only 6 jets, and none at neck level, feels pretty darn good most days. Any suggestions?
Chris - Admin
Hey Jim,
Man, I totally get it—hot water alone does a ton of the heavy lifting. Honestly, for a lot of folks, that gym tub with a half dozen jets still feels amazing most days because heat, buoyancy, and circulation are the foundation of the therapy. So you're absolutely right to value that.
Now, if you’ve got chronic neck or shoulder issues or you're really into the biomechanics side of things, then yeah—those high-end therapy massage tubs can be worth it. But they come at a cost. The reason for that jump in price is pretty simple: you're getting way more large high-flow therapy jets, bigger plumbing, higher flow pumps—all that stuff adds up.
That said, you don’t have to spend $15K. You can get into a legit high-therapy massage tub around the $13K mark if I pull a few strings and apply the discounts. That’s probably the bottom floor for something in the Twilight or equivalent level, which is where those really good shoulder and neck jet packages live.
But—and here’s the big thing—if you're not trying to rebuild a spine and just want solid everyday relief and comfort, Instinct is still a hell of a buy. It's not going to match the top-tier therapy of a Twilight 8.25, but it’s way better built than 90% of what’s out there in that price point, and it'll easily outperform basic gym tubs and most retail stuff under $12K.
Also: tall folks at 6’8” with 36” inseams? You’re going to sit deep in anything. That’s just a fact. If you go Instinct or any seven-footer, you may want to toss a booster cushion in some of the seats—that’s what I do when I’ve got big units in the tub.
Anyway, when you're shopping—keep your name out of it, don’t get into the dealer system yet. If you bring pricing back here, I can usually get it cheaper from the same people you’re already talking to. Or I can just handle it all for you and make it easy. Whatever you prefer.
You’re asking the right questions, man. Just don’t let the rabbit hole keep you from making a good decision. Let me know what direction you want to go, I’ve got you.
Jeff Cumming
Jul 20, 2025
Chris would really appreciate your input on a hot tub we’re planning to purchase for the new house.
We have a 240v disconnect with a 60-amp breaker being Installed by the electrician, and the plumber ran a hose bib to the location where we plan to place the tub so we’re getting everything prepped. We do plan on putting it on a concrete pad.
Now we’re trying to decide which hot tub to go with. We’re looking for something that seats at least six people, but ideally would like one that fits 7–8. We live in southwestern Pennsylvania and get some pretty cold winters, so cold-weather performance and energy efficiency are important to us.
We’ve used plenty of hot tubs over the years, but this will be our first time owning one, so we’re open to your recommendations on what makes and models we should be looking at. Thanks for your input and a saltwater system is a consideration
Chris - Admin
Hey Jeff,
Man, you're halfway there already—power in, water bib, concrete pad planned—nice work. That’s the heavy lifting done. Now let’s find you the right tub.
If you’re shooting for 7–8 people, you’re gonna want a 9-foot spa, no question. Most 7-footers that claim 6–7 are shoulder-to-shoulder elbow-fests once the jets are on. For real room and comfort, especially if you’ve used a bunch and know what you like, step it up to something like:
All these guys use vacuum-formed acrylic shells with fiberglass backing, compression fittings, full foam—these are winter tanks, not budget boxes. And the jet layouts in these tubs are actually designed to do something—not just spray water for show.
As for salt systems—used to be I’d say skip ’em. Too finicky, too harsh on parts. But the new Master Spas salt system changed the game. Lower salt content, on-demand generation, automatic monitoring. Not cheap (about $1,300 add-on), but if you like low-maintenance, soft water, and your wife’s skin doesn’t love traditional chems, it’s 100% worth a look.
So what kind of budget are you hoping to stay under? Let me know and I’ll narrow it down and probably beat whatever pricing you’ve seen already. We can run this through factory direct or through a local dealer depending on which way gets you the best bang.
Jason Roessner
Jul 19, 2025
Thank you for having this site!have a few questions.
1. We are looking for a 3-6 person with 2 loungers?
2. Salt water?
My wife has arthritis and this is more for her than recreational use.
Chris - Admin
Super hard to find twin lounger tubs from good builders,
have you been in hot tubs and love loungers? i ask because around 85% of second time buyers dont buy loungers...
Jason Scott Roessner
Wife has bad arthritis is why we want loungers
Chris - Admin
ok its hard to get in and out of loungers, and you have to hold on once your in them because you float out of them esp with the jets on...
best bet for mobility is simple in and out tubs... flat bench seating and easy you start getting into loungers and your gonna have a hard time getting out of them. get one lounger not two...
you have size or budget considerations?
Jd Anderson
Jul 19, 2025
Looking to purchase soon.
Hey Chris,
I’m in Salt Lake City area of Utah.
Can you help with pricing on the Master Spas 7.25? Wanting to finalize a purchase by end of Sept. Hoping I can have it delivered and installed by the beginning of Oct.
Thoughts, ideas? Looking forward to your reply.
JD
Chris - Admin
ill email you details.
Chris Tefo
Jul 19, 2025
Hi Chris! Thx for the straight talk! Wondering - why no word on Royal Spas Indianapolis ? Made here in Indy for many years and great reputation for best warranty in the biz. Thx for your thoughts!
Chris - Admin
Hey Chris—yeah, I hear you. Royal Spas has been around a long time and I’ve got nothing against them, but here’s the reality: small regional builders like that just can’t compete anymore. They don’t have the buying power for raw materials, and they don’t get anywhere near the economy of scale the big guys do.
So what happens is, either they end up overpriced, or they’ve got to cut corners somewhere to hit a price point—and usually it’s a bit of both. That’s just the brutal math of it.
The industry’s shifted hard. Between equity takeovers and consolidation, you’ve now got 3 or 4 big players owning 70% of the brands out there. It’s tough for a mom-and-pop builder to hang on, let alone compete on value. And while some still survive and maybe even build decent tubs, it’s not the sweet spot for performance, reliability, or bang for the buck.
So yeah, not throwing shade on Royal, but there are better-value options out there right now, plain and simple.
Scott
Jul 19, 2025
Thanks for the insighful info ! It certainly helps trying to narrow down all the Manuf options for a first time buyer . I am interested in a 6 person jacuzzi with one lounger and reliability / build quality is top on my list.
I would like a tub that comfortably seats 6. I have ample backyard space for install . After reading your recommendations, I’ve ruled out several brands PDC/Viking that appear to be mid tier. Locally I have dealer access to Nordic ( was looking at the Encore Sport Edition) and the Generation Millenial , legacy series, which I’d appreciate your thoughts on.
Aside from those 2, would you recommend the Masters LSX 900 Michael phelps legend series or another model?. FYI .. before discovering Hot Tub University, I filled out the questionnaire online to get the brocure and asked for pricing . I haven’t Benn contacted by Masters yet or received any pricing. I would be happy to work thru you if it came to that …
Thank you
Chris - Admin
Hey Scott,
Yeah man, six-person with a lounger is no problem—tons of options there. And good on you for ruling out PDC and Viking. They’re mid-tier builds and just don’t land on my radar much anymore unless the price is crazy good (and it usually isn’t).
Nordic? Not a bad tub, but keep in mind it's a plastic shell—rotomolded—not a full acrylic/fiberglass shell, and the insulation is pretty entry level. If you find it in the mid $6K to $7K range, maybe. But at $8K and up? Forget it. Not enough tub for the money.
Millennial / Legacy by Generation? That’s Kevin Sparks' restart—he used to run Foremost Tubs. Looks to me like he’s aiming to build it up and flip it to equity investors. I wouldn’t count on that brand sticking around long term or being able to compete with the big boys. Nothing shady, just not a strong enough offering.
Master’s Legacy Series? Solid. Good build quality, vacuum-formed shells with fiberglass backing, compression fit plumbing, and usually full foam. They’re great for people who want a well-built unit without paying for a big massage package. The seven-footers are usually around $10K USD depending on the setup, and very comparable to Instinct Spas, which is the factory direct version of that same platform.
Now, when you bring up the LSX 900, you just jumped into the deep end. That’s a top-tier tub—huge jet count, big therapy package, dual pumps, upgraded shell and cabinetry. You’re talking $15K–$16K range when it’s all said and done. Amazing if you need that high-end therapy setup, but if you're just looking for build quality and everyday reliability with some good jetting, you don’t need to go that big unless you want the top of the top.
If you haven’t been contacted by Master yet, just don’t give them your name again. I can get you pricing through either the local dealer or factory direct depending on what model makes sense for you, and I can make sure you’re not in their system yet so we can apply discounts and cover you under my buyer protection program. And yes, that means you’ll get my personal number in case anything goes sideways—same one my kids use to bug me for money. 😂
Let me know what else is on the wish list—massage, lighting, salt system, whatever—and I’ll point you in the right direction.
scott
Chris thnx for the quick response ..
If I eliminate manufactures by build quality, it looks like I’m down to Master’s, Instinct, and possibly Generation Hot tubs, although
I agree there’s certainly some risk to a younger company, despite the buildout having several of your quality requirements.
After a little ( cough, cough) more research , I realized if I want a lounge in the hottub and also want comfortable space for the other 4/5
people with superior build quality and pricing , I seem to have limited options.
In the 6-8 person Category with Lounge this is what I see:
Masters Spa- website shows LH, Balance, Precision, TS, and LSX Michael phelps series…. Is there also a Legacy model you mentioned ?
Instinct Spas- natural, vital … (not enough space for me)
Generation hot Tub- Legacy series “millennial” or “silent”.. (possibly risky)
You mentioned the LSX 900 has all the bells and whistles , Masters has several model/series… which would you recommend that is a notch or 2 lower that has decent price savings?
In the 6-8 person Category without Lounge this is what I see:
Masters spa- same models as above
Instinct Spas - Pure model
Is there a sweet spot for value without giving up quality .. I see the pure is 8.2k ish and at the high end the Micheal phelps can run loaded at 15k ish..
Finally, if I go with masters , what is the additional cost for the salt generator,…
also can the direction of the Lounge be reversed when built or is only option to rotate the tub?
Fyi...I haven’t been contacted by masters yet and I will ignore if they reach out to
Thank you… I think that’s it for now ...
Chris - Admin
Hey Scott,
You're doing all the right homework, man—it's clear you're looking at this smart. Let’s walk through where you're at and hit all your points without making your brain melt any further.
Yeah, I get why they caught your eye—they tick some of the “spec” boxes on paper. But the reality is, this is a small regional builder. They just can’t compete with the big dogs. I’ve called three or four times, left messages saying I’m a former dealer looking to reconnect—nobody answers, nobody calls back. That tells you something.
Shell-wise, it looks like acrylic bond, which is what Kevin Sparks used to use with Four Winds. That’s not fiberglass-backed, and it’s nowhere near as strong or self-supporting. Likely cradle-supported. I’d also bet they’re not clamping plumbing lines and probably running a perimeter insulation system, which just isn’t as efficient. And if they’re doing 1,000 tubs a year (if that), and Master’s doing 50,000+—you can’t buy parts at the same cost or build at the same quality. It’s apples and oranges.
Now we’re talking. Masters has been at it almost 30 years, they’re one of the top three globally, and the biggest in the U.S. Still privately owned, still building in the U.S., still clamping plumbing lines and hand-rolling shells. This is where reliability meets smart pricing.
You're right that LSX 900 is the flagship showpiece—loaded to the ceiling, but also a little flashy and not necessarily better performing than, say, a Twilight 8.2 (which is what I’d buy if it were my money). You get more of the large, expensive high-flow therapy jets in the Twilight than in anything in that mid-range price point. It’s the sweet spot for real massage therapy.
The LH, Balance, Precision series are solid tubs, just more basic jet packages, fewer bells and whistles, and fewer of the expensive high-flow jets. Good build quality across the board—just depends how important the therapy massage is.
And you’re bang-on: every model with a lounger has a twin version without a lounger, so you can almost always get the same shell layout with or without the lounge seat depending on what works best for your crew.
This new Master salt system is a whole new thing. I've been anti-salt for years because the old stuff was high-salt, high-chlorine, and just kinda dumb. This new one is low salt, low chem, smart monitored, and it’s been flawless in testing. Over six months of beta testing, all we’ve done is adjust pH a couple times. We’re holding chlorine at 1 part per million—half of what most salt systems are running.
Cost is $1,300 as an add-on and worth every penny. This will change the market—give it 18 months and everyone will be trying to copy it.
So let’s zero in on models —we’ve got a few great fits depending on how hard you want to chase therapy massage, and whether you’re doing a lounge or not.
Kristy Parrott
Jul 19, 2025
Where in Oregon can we view Masterspas? What should we look for in a used one if we cant afford a new one?
Chris - Admin
No dealer near you they do that city with expo events, they have solid local service and delivery teams,
this is a master and good deal its $11k new and worth around $4k+
https://web.facebook.com/share/1AebZuMw3Y/
this is pretty good but dont know the age...
https://web.facebook.com/share/1Bry8uNTMw/
jason gloria
Jul 19, 2025
Do you know if there is a master spa dealer in las vegas. I wasn’t able to get a reply from them on a dealer locator by there and we are going on sunday. we are really trying to find a dealer we can wet test a 18 or 19 foot challenger swim spa, or a michael phelps. So far we are leaning towards an E series endless pool because it seems to have the best swim pocket. But I’d prefer a masterspa quality wise. Just having trouble finding a dealer that has those to wet test in our area, or in an area we happen to be traveling to.
Chris - Admin
No dealer near you they do that city with expo events, they have solid local service and delivery teams, we have used them with good results, but if your looking at wet testing it will be tough, one of the reasons masters pricing is so much better is that they reduce a lot of overhead but for peeps that wanna water test its tough, artesian is there and likely Jacuzzi.
Adrian W
Jul 18, 2025
Thanks for sharing all of this great info! Two questions:
1) Bullfrog - is there something other than the price you don’t like?
2) Master - Is the Phelps model best saltwater option, how best to buy?
Chris - Admin
Yeah so bullfrog was acquired by an equity investment firm and everything's kind of gone down health and stuff it's a bit of a Mickey Mouse operation the bottom and you know Equity investors firms are never about quality there but profit so they cut the production costs and they add that on to their margins and then they increase the cost because they go crazy on marketing and branding cuz they know that's the gold it's got a thin cradle supported shell and in general it's just well marketed with lots of gimmicks I don't eat it it's top 10 in my opinion but barely.
Master Spa salt system right now is the dominant systems 30% less salt than the next best system which would be hot springs and it runs at half the chemical level and it's on demand it's the only one in the world that actually test your water continuously and only make sanitizer when it's needed. The rest of them are on timers so if you use the tub a lot and if with no chlorine and the water goes off and if you don't use it enough you end up with too high accordion level I've always said no to Saltwater Systems because of these two problems worth it
Jeff Groshek
Jul 18, 2025
Chris, I’ve read on other sites you are a Master Spa dealer. Do you have any financial relationship with Master Spas?
Chris - Admin
Totally fair question, and yeah, let's clear it up.
I used to be a dealer, and over the years I’ve carried a ton of different brands. I was actually one of the founders of Canadian Spa Company, which is still huge in Europe and Canada. I’ve sold into Costco, Home Depot, and other mass merchants for years. The last brand I retailed was Master Spas, and I carried them for about a decade. But I haven’t been in retail for over five years.
I started Hot Tub University nearly 15 years ago, and I’ve been saying the same stuff since day one. Master Spas has always been one of my top brands—long before this site was monetized. The thing just got too big to be a hobby, so I had to figure out how to keep it alive without turning it into the same corporate nonsense I’ve always pushed back against.
Now I make money four ways:
So yeah, I’m not a Master Spa dealer, and I’m not in anyone’s pocket. I’ve just been calling it like I see it for 15 years, and the message hasn’t changed.
Jeff Groshek
Thank you for the candid response.
My wife and I are looking for a large hot tub, 8x10. She has a really short torso and always sits too deep in the “good “ seats. Any thoughts on this? Tub will be under a deck but will get a fair amount of use during upper midwest winters so needs to be a good cold weather option.
Would also like a salt water option.
Would really like to hear your top ideas.
Thanks
Chris - Admin
Short Torso? Yeah, unfortunately, pretty much every major hot tub is built around the “average” body. So if your wife’s sinking too deep now, she’s going to sink too deep in everything. That’s just how these seats are molded. The fix is easy though — get a good spa booster cushion or seat wedge. Lifts her up a few inches, gets the jets where they’re supposed to hit, and problem solved. It’s way better than trying to chase some mythical tub that’ll somehow fit perfectly — it just doesn’t exist unless you custom build it (and that’s a can of worms).
Cold Climate Performance? You're in the Midwest — you want full foam insulation, no question. It’s the most expensive, but also the best performing system for holding heat in sub-zero winters. Perimeter systems (the ones with empty spaces and radiant barrier pitch) sound fancy, but the real-world thermal retention just isn’t there. Stick with full foam, and you’ll thank yourself come January.
Salt Systems? Most saltwater systems have struggled in the past — too much salt concentration caused damage over time, and they weren’t actually “low-maintenance” like the pitch says. But Master Spas just flipped the script. Their new system is lower salt content, fully on-demand, and way smarter. It tests and adjusts automatically, and doesn’t dump salt into the water all the time. It’s the first one I actually recommend. Nobody else is even close on this right now — give it 18 months and the rest will catch up, but today? They’re out front.
What Should You Look At?
If you want an 8x10, solid cold-weather performance, salt compatibility, and reliable jetting, take a look at something like the Master clarity 9 or the LSX 900. Absolute tanks, full foam, big-time hydrotherapy, and salt-ready. And I can get you killer pricing on either — just don’t give your name out until we talk. I’ll run the numbers and get you in through the back door with a better deal and my buyer protection service as a buffer in case anything ever goes sideways.
We could also look at a Sundance camera was called but they do a 9-footer as well the jet package is somewhere between the two but they're made in Mexico and their Equity investment known so you can overpay especially with tariffs right now but there's always well made tub as well what kind of money you're hoping to spend?
Let me know if you want to dig deeper into those options — we’ll get you sorted.
Jeff Groshek
Can we work together outside the public forum? I’m interested, would just prefer to not share my budget on an open chat.
How would we get started?
Chris - Admin
Join the Buyers service for $99 we can jump on the phone, email text, and you get my personal phone for the buyer protection service, means if your ever have an issue with a seller i hook you up with you can text me and i'll intervene.
and if I don't save you more than the cost of the service I refund it
https://www.hottubuniversity.com/pbs
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