Look I get it we were anti salt for over probably 15 years the problem was the SALT levels were so high that the corrosion was an issue the system's 30% lower salt than anything else on the market and honestly even the hot spring system which is 30% higher salt was already pretty damn good they pretty much eliminated most of the corrosion issues at that level at this level it's not an issue dude. The big change for us was the on-demand aspect so all the other salt systems are there dumb they just make chlorine so if you use the tub a lot you're chlorine runs out in the water goes off and if you don't use it a lot the chlorine builds up in your over chlorinated this automatic system to test the water and only makes sanitizer when it's needed is insane everybody's going to have this with an 18 months but right now it's a standalone miles ahead of anything else. I would absolutely add it to your order it's going to delay your delivery, and it should cost $1,300. There's two one of two scenarios here either the dealer really doesn't understand the fundamentals of these systems and why this is a game changer sometimes change is hard for some people you get your head in the sand about something and you've held that position for so long some people have a hard time shifting gears or it could be that they're trying to get rid of something that's in stock or they don't want you to have to special order this thing with longer delivery windows. 

Hey Jennifer,

Yeah, so here’s the straight talk:

You’re kind of going from the frying pan into the fire with that CalSpa. It’s not that it’s a bad tub, but CalSpa’s build quality is pretty middle of the road. We've been through their factory and all that marketing fluff about the steel frame and multi-layer shell—it's just that: fluff. The steel strips they use are so thin they’re there more for the brochure than the build, and while they pitch it hard, the shell is a cradle-supported design, not self-supporting like the better builds. It's just not a premium structure.

Also—check the insulation. CalSpa often sells base models with perimeter insulation and only upgrades to full foam on higher-end lines. You’re in Calgary, so insulation is a big deal—make sure it’s full foam or you’ll get hammered on hydro when the temps dip.

Now, the price on that PZ-620B at $11,999 CAD isn’t horrible. But again, you’re not getting a ton for it. That’s a six-footer with a pretty standard jet layout, and it’s not clamped plumbing. It’ll work, but long-term reliability just isn’t on the same level as the better builds.

On the other hand, those Master LH6 and LH7 units are legit tanks. Master’s got one of the only hand-rolled, self-supported shells in the industry, full foam insulation as standard, clamped plumbing lines, and it’s still made in the U.S. Not owned by equity guys, not built in Mexico—just a solid, family-owned company that still builds for reliability.

LH6 at $12,995 CAD is a solid deal. It’s a six-footer, just like the Cal, but better jet package, better shell, better insulation. Worth the stretch.

LH7 at $13,995 CAD gives you the full seven-foot footprint. If you’ve got the space and the budget, that’s the better buy, hands down.

Final Call:

If you absolutely have to stay under $11K, the CalSpa will work—but I’d say you're compromising long-term quality.

If you can stretch to $12,995–$13,995, the Master is a far better investment. Especially in a climate like yours, where performance in cold weather and long-term durability really matter.

Let me know what pricing you’re seeing from the dealers—if you haven’t given them your name yet, I can likely help you get a better deal through our buyer service. But either way, skip the bells and whistles, and spend your money on build quality, insulation, and reliability. That's where it really counts.

Hey Rick,

First off—damn, sorry to hear about the Doughboy. That sucks. But yeah, welcome to the hot tub rabbit hole. You’re doing this the right way: test drive with a hand-me-down, realize you want something decent, and now you’re trying to make a smart call. Love it.

Let’s talk brands:

Jacuzzi J325

Good tub overall—solid build, great brand, but owned by a European equity firm, and built in Mexico, so you’re getting dinged with tariffs and inflated costs from marketing and dealer markups. That $11,500 price for a floor model isn’t bad, but honestly, you’re paying for the name. It’s a good tub, just not the best bang for your buck anymore. Also, proprietary parts, which can be a pain long-term.

Vita Grand / Vita Salon

Vita/American Whirlpool used to be okay, but since they were pulled into the MAAX/USSPA merger mess, it’s been hit or miss. Cradle-supported shells, perimeter insulation, and they’ve moved away from clamped plumbing. It’s not garbage, but it’s definitely mid-tier. That $10,500 price point is where that tub belongs. You’re not getting ripped off, but you’re not getting a steal either.

Here’s the Move:

Take a look at the Instinct Spa line. It's a factory-direct private build from one of the largest and oldest U.S. manufacturers, made specifically for Hot Tub University followers.

Self-supporting fiberglass shell (unlike Vita or Caldera’s cradle support)

Clamped plumbing lines (adds a few hundred bucks to the build cost but saves thousands in leaks later)

Full foam insulation, U.S.-built

Balboa controls, CMP compression-fit jets—zero proprietary crap

National delivery/install team, so even in your area, you're covered

Buyer's Protection Service included—if anything ever goes sideways, you text me directly and I’ll sort it out myself.

It was $11,000+ in showrooms. When the factory stripped out all the marketing, brochures, dealer markups, etc., the price dropped to $8,300 delivered and installed. Nothing optional, no upsells. Cover, steps, startup kit—it’s all in there. It's the best $8,300 spa on the market, period.

Quick Answer for You:

Jacuzzi: Nice, overpriced, proprietary

Vita: Mid-tier, fair price, but you're not getting top-end build

Instinct: Tank, better build, better spec, better value—and under budget

Let me know if you want me to hook you up with someone to process the Instinct for your area, or if you want help negotiating the other brands. Just don’t give your name to the dealers yet—we can usually get you better pricing if you're still a "new lead" in their system.

You're close. Let’s make sure you land the right tub.

Hey Joe,

Appreciate that—and yeah, if you're down to Master Spas vs. Hot Springs, it's an easy call: go Master.

Master Spas: U.S.-made, family-owned, no proprietary parts, better jet tech, full foam insulation, and super reliable. Best bang for your buck, especially for therapy and long-term durability.

Hot Springs: Big brand, flashy marketing, but made in Mexico now. Lots of proprietary parts, and between that and the tariffs, you're paying a premium for less actual build quality.

If you’re exploring, also check out:

Jacuzzi

Sundance

Artesian, bullfrog even

They’re the other top players in the game, but Master still beats them on value, ownership model, and serviceability.

If you’re looking at a 3-seater, something like the Twilight 6.2 or a Clarity 3-person would be right on target. Happy to help dig up pricing or steer you to the right dealer if you want to go further.

Hey Ken,

Totally get it—if you’ve had two tubs with loungers and still want one, then you’re the exception that proves the rule. I usually just warn folks because a lot of first-time buyers think they want a lounger and then end up never using it. But if you know you like it, you’re golden. My ex wouldn’t touch a tub without one either.

Now as for the Vital Instinct, yeah—you’re right. It’s a lot of hot tub for the money. That spa was $11,000 in retail showrooms, and when the factory pulled it into factory-direct mode just for Hot Tub University clients, they cut out all the marketing, advertising, and dealer markup, and that’s what dropped it to $8,300 delivered and installed. It’s the exact same build and spec, just without all the fluff.

Delivery & Setup in Coastal NC

You’re good. We’ve done dozens of deliveries right in your area. Master Spas handles this a bit differently—they don’t rely on local mom-and-pop dealers in every town. Instead, they run large-scale expo events and support them with regional delivery and service hubs. That means there's already a big install base near you, so the delivery team knows your region well, and they’ll hand-deliver and set it right on your back patio—no curbside drop nonsense.

Service

Same deal—national service network. Because they’ve already installed thousands of these across the country (including in your backyard), there are already techs in place to handle any issues. And on top of that, when you go through us, we automatically include our Buyer Protection Service, which means you get my personal contact info, and if you ever have a service issue that isn’t getting handled, you just ping me and I’ll get it sorted out fast.

Long story short—you’re covered on all fronts. Instinct’s a hell of a tub, and if you love loungers, the Vital’s probably the best value in the market right now.

Let me know when you’re ready to move forward—I'll get you locked into the best pricing and make sure the process goes smooth.

—Chris

Hey Andrea,

Yeah, you’re bang on. Catalina used to be a solid brand—it was in my recommended group for years. Back when it was still owner-operated, the tubs were well-built, had decent componentry, and the quality control was pretty consistent. But when LPI bought them, everything changed.

LPI’s whole playbook is accountants building boxes. It’s all about margin and volume now—cutting build costs, pushing big marketing budgets, and flooding the market. Build quality has dropped, and we’ve started hearing more complaints—plumbing reliability, jet failure, warranty issues, and customer service headaches, all the usual signs of a brand shifting away from quality to cost-cutting. So I’d say you’re right to pause and reconsider.

Now, for alternatives:

Master Spas

If you're looking for top-tier therapy, longevity, and value, Master is the gold standard right now. Still U.S.-made, family-owned, and they use zero proprietary parts—Balboa electronics, Waterway or CMP jets, clamped plumbing, and full foam insulation. Basically built like a tank, and they’re leading the industry on chemical reduction with their new salt system too.

Jacuzzi & Sundance

Now, to be fair, Jacuzzi and Sundance are still top 3 tubs on the market. Great builds, well-respected, and good massage performance—but there are trade-offs:

• Both are now owned by a big equity investment firm out of Europe.
• Made in Mexico, so with current tariffs, the prices are jacked up.
• Higher proprietary parts content, which can lock you into their ecosystem and drive up repair costs long-term.

So yeah, Master’s got the edge for me. It checks all the boxes: U.S.-made, non-proprietary, top-tier therapy, and the price is usually better because they don’t spend crazy money on branding and marketing.

If you’re still within the window to back out of that Catalina, I’d seriously think about it. You can do better—either with Master, or even Jacuzzi/Sundance if you find the right dealer and price.

Happy to help you weigh options if you want to fire over some quotes.

—Chris

Hey Geoff,

Yeah, the 2025 Grand Cayman Elite at $19K is way too much. Artesian used to be a really solid brand, but since they got scooped up by an equity investment group, it's been the usual story—price hikes, lower build quality, and a lot of money funneled into marketing and branding instead of the tub. They've dropped things like clamped plumbing, which is a big one for long-term reliability. At $19K? No chance, man. That tub should be in the $15–16K range tops, and even then, I think we can get you more bang for your buck.

Now Stellar Spas—big red flag. That’s a virtual brand, basically rebranded Chinese imports, and the quality’s not there. Thin cradle-supported shells, perimeter insulation (if you're lucky), and pretty weak jetting. It’s low-end stuff with a pretty website slapped on it. I wouldn’t go there even at $10K, let alone anything higher.

If you're looking for a larger footprint tub—91x91 or up—but want to stay under $15K and keep the build quality high, then you’re squarely in the Master Spas Twilight Series zone. Something like the Twilight 8.25 or 8.2 or a jacuzzi 400 series, ora higher end sundance is going to check all the boxes:

Full 92" footprint

Big deep seating for tall folks

Loaded jet package with tons of high-flow therapy jets (not those cheap little pressure washers)

Hand-rolled self-supporting shell

Clamped plumbing, full foam insulation

Balboa electronics, Waterway jets—no proprietary junk

Delivered and installed with our buyer protection, you’re going to be just around that $15K mark (or under, depending on final spec). And that’s a legit high-end tub that blows the Stellar and even the Grand Cayman out of the water for the money.

Let me know if you want me to line this up for you through our private buyer network. If you haven’t given your info to a dealer yet, I can usually get you a better deal than you'd walk in and get on your own—and I’ll back it with our protection service so you’ve got a direct line to me if anything ever goes sideways.

Hey Margot,

Yeah, so Sundance is okay. It’s in my top five overall, but there are a few caveats you want to keep in mind.

First off, they're equity-investor owned now—European firm—and the tubs are built in Mexico, so you're getting smacked with a tariff bump right out of the gate. That’s a couple grand of your money going into thin air. Add to that the fact they’re still using this old-school jet system called Fluetics. It was decent tech 20 years ago, but it’s way outdated now. It’s a two-part housing, and it’s nowhere near as efficient or reliable as the modern compression-fit jet systems.

Now, the Chelsea 780 specifically? Decent build, but basic jetting. It’s all small low-flow jets, so nothing really impressive in terms of therapy. That tub is probably worth somewhere between $8,500 and $10,500, tops, depending on what’s included. Anything more than that, and you’re overpaying.

For the same type of layout and size, I’d be looking at either the Instinct Spa (factory direct from the biggest U.S. manufacturer, built specifically for my customers) or a Master Spas Clarity series 7-footer. The Instinct is $8,300 delivered and installed, and it’s a tank—self-supported shell, glued and clamped plumbing, full foam insulation, standard Balboa gear, zero proprietary nonsense. The Clarity is a step up in jetting, closer to Sundance in price, but again, U.S.-made, and you’re not paying the marketing tax.

You could also consider a Jacuzzi 345. Same corporate parent as Sundance, similar build, just a different shell layout. All of these are in the same ballpark in terms of materials, but the Instinct wins big on value because they cut all the dealer markup, ad budget, and promo fluff.

Do you have a price on the Chelsea yet? Also, keep your name out of the conversation while you’re shopping—don’t get into their system. Once you’re in their CRM, they lock you out of the new customer deals. If you send me back the quote, I can connect you directly to the same dealer you’re talking to now, but under a new customer setup and get you better pricing plus my buyer protection service.

You’re on the right path—just don’t rush it. Let’s get the numbers right first.

Hey Scott,

Yeah, you’re right on the money—the Master Twilight series is easily one of the top therapy tubs in the world. Big 5” high-flow therapy jets, monster footwell jets with diverters, and a serious shell and insulation package behind it. If massage and real hydrotherapy are what you’re after, it’s hard to beat.

Now, that dealer in Pennsylvania is actually one of the biggest Master dealers on the East Coast. Master does things a little differently than most brands—they don’t stack dealers every 50 miles like some of the other companies. Instead, they set up larger regional dealers that cover a huge area. These guys handle a ton of volume and run expo events, where they’ll roll into a city with 30–50 tubs and sell more units in a weekend than most dealers sell in a year.

What that means for you is you’ve already got full install and service coverage in your area—there are thousands of Master Spas in the New Jersey market, and they’ve got teams set up to handle service and warranty work locally.

Now as for pricing, if you let me do the introduction to the dealer, I can usually get you better numbers than you’d get walking in cold, and we also back it up with our buyer protection service—so if anything ever goes sideways, you text me directly on my mobile, and I’ll sort it out. I don’t mess around with bad dealers. We vet everyone we work with, and that’s why we rarely run into any problems, but if we do, I’ll personally step in.

I’ll shoot you over a quick email now with some details and next steps. You’re in a good spot—just don’t sign anything yet until I’ve had a chance to help you line up the best deal.

yeah its available on the swimmers, and the retrofits are coming in a few months, you already have the tub?

We have a deposit with the local dealer but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.

Good to know that I can get the option when we actually place the order.

Hey John,

Appreciate all that—glad the videos helped you dodge the Hot Springs bullet. First off, I’m curious—what kind of trouble were you having with the Viking? Was it leak-related? That’s usually what finally kills them.

Now, onto the Artesian South Seas 532/533. You're right, they're in the right size range and a decent build overall. But here's the thing—they were bought back by an equity investment firm, and the usual story applies. Prices have crept up, a lot of money’s being pumped into marketing and branding, and unfortunately, they’ve dropped some of the build quality.

The big one for me? They’re not clamping their plumbing lines anymore. That’s a cost-cutting move, plain and simple, and it’s a big deal when it comes to long-term leak reliability. Clamped plumbing adds a few hundred bucks to the cost, but it saves you major headaches down the road.

If you’re after strong massage therapy (especially with a massage therapist in the house!), you might want to take a serious look at the Twilight 67.25 from Master Spas. It’s in that same small footprint, but it’s built like a tank—clamped and glued plumbing, self-supported shell, great therapy jet layout, and a better insulation system. That line is kind of the gold standard for hydrotherapy without going into crazy pricing.

As for local dealers—we can definitely negotiate pricing for you. But here’s the game plan: keep your name out of it while you shop. Call around, ask for quotes, don’t give them your info yet. Then either post those quotes back here and I’ll see what I can do, or sign up for the Private Buyer Service ($99) and we’ll jump on a quick call. I’ll walk you through it, find what fits you best, and we’ll go to work negotiating on your behalf. Totally up to you.

You’re on the right track. Let’s get this dialed in right.

Okay so Master spot beats bullfrog hands down on so many different fronts. You're not talking about a huge privately owned old school manufacturer that's been around for almost 30 years and is the largest in North America versus a relative newcomer that's Equity investment owned. The master has a fully self-supported shell the bullfrog has a much cheaper cradle supported shell. And bullfights even getting absolutely lambasted over the last year seems their quality is really taken a hit but again that's typical of equity investment ownership these guys know the value of marketing and advertising and branding. Second of all your pricing on the Masters is stupid low the Twilight series should not be below $11,000 how the hell did you get pricing like that?

The Master Spa distributor here in the Kansas City area is a subsidiary of the Saint Louis distributor. The manager says that the volume they handle with various distributors is how they keep their prices low. The Twilight price is good until the end of this month and it sounds like I should go that route.

Thanks for your advice.

Best regards.

Lynn Allen Frick

Chris,

Can your buying service help at all with the pricing on the Master Spa 240X? Based on your comments, I may already have a good price and should take the offer. I would also prefer to give the business to a local company if possible.

Also, is Spa Marvel still available on your new website? I haven’t been able to find it.

Regards.

Lynn Allen Frick

so we don't sell anything i would just connect you to the same seller but honestly $9395 is lower than even we get, its and anomly never seen that price even from that dealer.

Hey David,

Good instincts so far—you're circling some of the big brands, but here's the real breakdown.

Master Spas Twilight

This is my top pick for you, hands down. Built in the U.S., it’s a tank. Self-supporting fiberglass shell (not cradle-supported like most), clamped plumbing lines, full-foam insulation, and standard Balboa controls and Waterway jets—zero proprietary nonsense. That means fewer repairs, easier service, and parts are cheap and widely available.

As for water care: the new Master salt system changes the game. It runs 30% lower salt than any other system, which kills off most corrosion issues. But the real magic? It senses chlorine levels in real time and only generates sanitizer when it’s needed. We’ve been beta-testing it for 6 months—three pH adjustments total. No other chemicals added. That’s as easy as it gets.

Wellis Mandala

Wellis had promise—we even put my son in as a dealer for them at one point. But we’re dropping the line now. They’ve got some automation that makes build consistency decent, but cradle-supported shells, no clamped plumbing, cheaper insulation systems, and the factory support is a nightmare. No one answers phones. If anything goes wrong, good luck.

If you've got a great local dealer who will personally stand behind the product, maybe it’s worth it—but factory-wise, Wellis is one of the worst we’ve dealt with. Not a long-term play in my book.

Jacuzzi J Series

Used to be the king. Still looks good on the showroom floor—until you dig in. The flashy brand means you’re paying extra for marketing, not build. Cradle-supported shells, proprietary parts (especially the electronics), and made in Mexico, which means tariffs hit hard in Canada. Solid spa, but overpriced for what you're actually getting.

So what would I do in your shoes?

I'd go Twilight Series, no question. Something like the 7.2 or 8.25 depending on the size/jet count you want. If you’re running it year-round in BC, nothing beats a full-foam, self-supported shell for energy efficiency and durability.

And yes—we can get you factory-direct pricing, skip the markup, and include delivery, install, steps, cover, and hydraulic lifter in that $15–20K CAD range. We’ll also back you up with our Buyer Protection Service, which means you get my personal mobile number and I get involved if anything ever goes sideways.

Want me to set it up? Or do you have a specific quote or model in mind you want me to compare?

Thanks for the quick response Chris. I’d be interested in your services. Are you able to email me or call me to discuss? Thanks.

yeah i dropped you an email

Yeah depending what you're looking at I used to live in the UK for 15 years so I've got a lot of contacts here what tubs are you looking at?

I need to get some other garden/buildingwork completed first so my budget will depend to some extent on what money I have left.

I'll be looking at a 7 ft tub (could possibly stretch to 8ft), one lounger, ideally decent jetting. Being an inherently lazy man, the Twilight 7.2 with the salt system appeals. I don't have a MS dealer particularly close so I haven't had a chance to look at one in person. The advertised online price is £12k.

My closest dealers are Artesian and Platinum.

so artesian is pretty good, but they stopped clamping the plumbing lines which sucks :-(

platinum isn't even a real manufacturer :-) its a chinese rebrand,

whats your post code?

Absolutely we can help you get better pricing on any tub out there I'll email you some info.

Yeah in general I like Beachcomber spas. But the non-removable skirt is idiocy. They saved about $500 on the fabrication by not having to build a subframe but oh my god when the end user gets a leak it can cost thousands of dollars because you got to pay to have it shipped to a facility where they can fix it. Now there are Bush League fixes where you just got holes in the side of it the skirt. Or you flip it on its side and hopefully maybe get lucky and find the leak on the bottom but the truth is there's loads of horror stories of customers being faced with two and three thousand dollar bills to have tubs shipped to repair centers so is it worth it yeah if you get lucky and don't get a leak no if you get a leak. Unless your local dealers willing to guarantee leak repair shipping costs I wouldn't touch it other than that though it's great. But you're right stay away from the hybrid system the stupid technology is just done for marketing so good reason why nobody else in the industry does this having your pumps outside is great for service but you lose the waste heat from your motors which is huge plus your Motors are in a really under insulated area so you're losing Heat by pumping your hot water outside of your insulation envelope. Add that to the massive risk of your equipment freezing and breaking in a power outage I wouldn't touch hybrid with a 10 ft pool definitely go with the leap series. Do you have pricing?

It’s priced at $9499. With cover lifter, steps, chemicals GFCi box etc I’m looking at just over 12k cdn. Would you recommend a hush pump for $500 or is it just another thing that could break down. I think I’m more focused on keeping the tub as simple as possible.

Hey Andy,

Something’s not adding up here.

You’re telling me it’s a 14-jet, single-pump tub priced at $9,499 CAD, and somehow by the time they throw in a cover lifter, steps, chemicals, and a GFCI box, it jumps to $12,000?

No way. Those extras are maybe $600 worth of gear — even being generous. So what’s the other $1,800 going to? That pricing structure makes zero sense unless something’s been misquoted or misrepresented.

To give you a comparison, if we looked at a similarly specced build — proper shell, same control systems (Balboa), decent jet count — you’d be into something like the LH Series from Master Spas, and that would land around:

• $13,995 for the six-footer, or
• $14,500 for the seven-footer.

And those are twin-pump, 40-jet tubs — real therapy massage tubs, not a single-pump 14-jet entry model.

Also, hard pass on the Hush Pump. $500 for a tiny circulation pump? Nah. It’s just one more thing to break, and frankly, unnecessary. A two-speed pump filters just as well, and you can dial up your filtration cycles to match whatever load you’ve got. Keep it simple and reliable.

As for stuff like Beachcomber’s "jet counts" — ignore their flex jet math. They count every individual hole as a separate jet. So a 4-nozzle cluster suddenly becomes “4 jets.” It's ridiculous. It’s brochure fluff, not real jet power.

Bottom line: recheck the numbers and get the model name of that tub you were quoted. Something’s off, and we need to figure out where the disconnect is before you drop $12K on a single-pump unit that probably should be in the $7K–$8K range max.

Let me know what you find out — I’ll help you untangle it.

Yeah so it was on his great technology and the high-end systems are like you experienced in the water purification industry are exceptional. But those are expensive systems the $200 ozone systems on hot tubs not so much:-) in fact I think they're a waste of time I have done really high-end systems with multi-stage absorption tanks etc etc but those are several thousand dollars. But here's the good news you're dead right that the master Spa salt system is a game changer nobody out there can touch this right now I imagine by next year will have copies but for now these guys are Miles Ahead everybody else the automated testing and On Demand sanitizer is absolutely killing it and guess what the Instinct Spas are salt ready and when the kit is launched in a boat two to three months it'll literally be a plug-and-play install to bring that up to spec to a high-end salt system. It also hits every other point self-supported shell, gluten clamped plumbing, full foam insulation, compression fittings Balboa Control Systems you name it I think it's built like a tank. That was built to our specifications from the largest manufacturer in North America specifically for our clients and offered direct to the public. If we put that through dealer networks it would be $11,000 because we'd have marketing and advertising and brochures and all that other shit that keeps adding on to the price this thing is bulletproof every part can be next day delivered from Amazon all top name brand parts and it's simple to fix right to repair is one of my main battles and we were made sure this unit was built to that specification. My opinion at $8,300 there's not a tub out there under $11,000 that can beat it right now.

Hey Chris! Thanks for the reply, that’s really great to know that Instinct is salt ready and will be coming out with a salt system hopefully soon. One more box checked.

So if I was to purchase one of the Instinct spas now, you mentioned “plug and play”, would I be able to just add that on later without too much pain? I would like to get it ordered before summer’s over. Thanks!

you just order it offline, it was put out there for our customers, its why you only hear about it here, no marketing costs, dealer markups, advertising etc :-)

you literally plug the unit in and drop it in the filter housing.

Yeah we've dealt with premium wholesale up in Kitchener they're the largest seller of hot tubs in Canada right now these guys do sales all around central Canada and they have installed service teams everywhere so yeah you'd be well serviced in that area. Especially out through us our buyers Protection Service ensures Nobody messes with you :-) and if they do you text me on my private mobile I'll have it sorted out in minutes:-)

I can also get you better pricing through that local Sundance dealer or through the master Spa dealer especially if you keep your details private anytime you're buying an expensive product they're going to try and get your private details and they're going to use excuses like all send you some more information or I'll let you know a special or oh I don't know that right now I'll get back to you just tell him you'll call them back don't give out your personal details you always end up paying more

The Sundance and Master Spas or are in my top three spas. But Master edges him out on a few areas. They both build great shells they both glue and clamped their Plumbing lines they both use Balboa electronic control and heating systems but Master Spas uses a much newer jetting system with compression fittings on the Shelf that's basically eliminated shell to Jet interface leaks which is usually a big concern. Sundance on the other hand is using a 20-year-old outdated proprietary system called fluetics. This uses old two-part jet housings with silicone and honestly with the advances in fluid dynamics over the last 10 years they're nowhere near as efficient as the modern Jet Systems this used to be an advantage now it's a liability. Also Master Spas is made in the US Fort Wayne Indiana oldest manufacturing North America and is privately owned your shipping costs aren't that bad. Whereas Sundance is made in Mexico and owned by a European Equity Investment Company. And they're distributed through the US you're going to get chewed up on tariff charges as they come from Mexico to the US and then shoot up again as they come from the US to Canada :-( also the Problem with Equity investment ownership is these guys know that marketing is King I mean look at our elections nowadays you buy them it's all about marketing and Equity investors know this and on average they spend a thousand to 1500 dollars more per hot tub and marketing and branding then someone like Master Spas that's a family-based business. One's accountants building boxes the other ones people building products and it's a big difference. Have you got any pricing yet? Do you know which models you're interested in?

Hi Chris, We have not had any response from the local Sundance dealer and visited the local Marquis dealer in Peterborough and are interested in the Crown Epic at $21999 CAD because it appears to offer the best hydrotherapy but definitely open to consider other manufacturers at this point. Thanks. Kevin

Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the update. Here's the deal with Marquis:

They used to be a great, high-end builder based out west — real employee-ownership story, solid craftsmanship. But that all changed when they got bought by an equity firm. Since then, prices have shot up and the build quality’s gone down. Classic private equity play: raise margins, cut corners.

A big one? They no longer clamp their plumbing. Instead, they use a cheaper method called "SureGrip." Sounds nice, but the hard truth is this — it's not the hose that fails, it's the connection point. Clamping is still the gold standard, and skipping it saves them money and adds risk for you.

Now as for the Crown Epic, it’s not a bad tub — still arguably top 5 — but saying it’s the best therapy option out there? Not even close.

Let’s break down the jetting:

• Only three of the big 5” high-flow massage jets, which are the real heavy hitters.
• The rest are mid-size 3.5” jets and a bunch of the small 1.5” high-pressure, low-flow jets. Those feel snappy but don’t actually move much water, so the therapeutic benefit isn’t there.
• No dedicated foot jet system.
• Neck jets are the tiny ones, again, not real therapy-grade.

You compare that to something like the Twilight Series from Master Spas — now that jet package is legit:

• Way more of the large, high-flow jets.
• 3.5” jets in the neck and shoulders.
• Monster footwell jets with diverter valve control.
• And yes — clamped plumbing, self-supporting shell, and full foam insulation.

That Marquis Crown Epic at $21,999 CAD? It’s overpriced. I can get you into a Twilight for less, likely just under $20K CAD delivered and installed, and it’ll beat that Marquis in every meaningful category — therapy, build, insulation, and long-term reliability. Plus, with our Buyer’s Protection Service, if anything ever goes sideways, I’ll get it handled personally.

Last note — keep your name out of dealer conversations until we’re ready to pull the trigger. That lets me handle the negotiation and make sure we unlock the proper discount. I can get you better pricing on the marquis, sundance of Master or anything else through the very same sellers :-)

Let me know if you want me to get the ball rolling.

Cheers,

Chris

So you could look at jacuzzi 400 series they would be just below the Twilight jet package and jacuzzi and master build almost identical. They even use the same Balboa electronic control and heating systems. You could probably look at a Sundance high-end tub but again it's not going to have quite as many of the large high flow therapy massage Jets is the Twilight has.

Definitely I can save you some money on your pricing your best bet is not to be in the sellers database. So when you're shopping they'll try and get your personal details the claim things like they're going to send you specials or whatever they'll find some reason just tell him that you'll get back in touch with him and keep your private details out of it then I can get you new customer discounts right through those same retailers:-)

I can get you almost any job in the market at a discount usually through the same dealers you're talking to. We get discounts from factories wholesalers and dealers alike when you help people buy 30 million dollars for the hot tubs every year hey you know the pricing so nobody gets taken advantage of the I have a lot of clothes so you can protect those customers of your buyers Protection Service and see dealers don't mess around they just give you the bottom line price it's almost never that I can't save you money. Check your emails I'll send you an email Direct