Great Marketing Vs. Great Hot Tubs
Great Hot Tubs or great marketing. You can’t have them both and you can’t relax in a brochure.
There are 2 business models for Hot Tub manufacturers and unfortunately, the best business model is to Build a mid grade spa and spend a lot of money on fancy marketing, spin, and advertising.
The reality is marketing trumps, and the pitch and the spin are nearly impossible to sort from the reality.
One of the best things you can do is this analyse where the money is being spent.
For example, we can pitch reflective foils as a good insulation system, and we can pitch perimeter foam or full foam as great systems but looking past the hype and the pitch to what costs the most is a great way to determine what is really the best system, it’s easy… Full foam uses 3x more of the expensive expanding foam so it costs 3x more… similarly, the good North American parts cost more than the cheap Chinese parts and building a good hand rolled fibreglass shell cost the most.
I was looking for information on how noisy hot tubs are, particularly during the filtration cycle. Are there significant differences between the brands on your A list? or between high end models and middle of the line? I found that very few manufacturers provide the actual DB ratings.
Yep. Some of has to do with the motors (I like the brand “US Motors” a lot has to do with the frame (stay away from steel or metal frames they are crap and noisy) and a lot has to do with vibration mitigation. The best I have seen is the master spas system where they suspend the pump on a rubber bridge.
Help! I need to settle on a hot tub and have only looked at Marquis and Bullfrog. There seems to be so much information and I don’t have huge amounts of money. Trying to get a 5-6 seat hot tub that is quality for less than $9000.
Hey Janet
The Bullfrog for sure right now, marquis is going through some issues and I’ve had to remove them from the recommended list until they get their shit together.
But there are better deals, the truth is the retail hot tub market on the west coast is dead because there is a massive dealer that sells most of the tubs on the west coast and no one can otuch the pricing because they dont have retail overheads, and they have service guys everywhere.
Just curious about the dr wellness it has been a year or so since you last commented on them have you found out anymore it’s 6400 for g12 tub with has extra foam it’s the higher series. With the other brands you mention for similar features and warranty couple thousand more
It is what it is, cheap price dodgy quality
Moving to the Flathead Lake region in Northwest Montana. What would be your choice of a dealer in that area and hot tub choice for a 4 person?
man there all middle of the road around you.
I suppose the Cal spa from Escape Now Spas in Whitefish, but make sure its a model with Balboa controls and order the full foam upgrade.
Do you think $10,295.00 is too much money for the Master Spa HL7 (Clarity) . 84x84x36
That really depends.
If that’s Canadian dollars it’s an awesome price. If that’s US it’s too high
Hello! Thank you for the information… it’s all VERY helpful (and humbling as I now realize how much we DON’t know!) We’re in Hudson, WI (relatively close to St. Paul, MN) and wondering if you have can suggest brand/model for 7+ person tub in/around ~$10/12k. Would love to spend less if we could, but we were just about to go with a Vector 21 until seeing the “behind the scenes” review showing the deficiency. It’s our first tub, but we do have a salt water pool that we love and with the automatic cover it’s been relatively low maintenance so… Read more »
Shit 10-12k should get you almost anything… def an HL or maybe even a twilight if they have a demo unit…
check these guys out for sure:
Master Pool & Spa
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6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
+1 952-253-0665
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Minnesota hot tubs also sell bullfrog and Nordic which is just out of my top list but better than the rest of the crap around you 🙂
Looking to buy a hot tub. Pinnacle Hot Tubs are at a home show. Would you recommend the Pinnacle brand? We live in the Allegheny Mountains in South Western PA where the winters are harsh.
Nope
its changes with them a lot last time I looked it was Gecko, thin shell, crap insulation I heard they got bought out but can’t remember for sure, dude historically it’s not a brand I would consider and I doubt anything dramatic enough to make me change my mind has happened 🙂
There were a bunch dropped in my local market s a few years back by a dump and run show and we have been servicing/replacing them every year…
Wondering what you would recomend for a spa for a couple, children are grown, say 4-6 size, living in the WA area around Tacoma. We’ve had several used fixer uppers, but would like something maintenance free for awhile!
Hi Austin
I would try the guys down at Black Pine Hot Tubs in Edmonds look at the artisans, they are well built.
There is also a load f good independent guys in and around the Seattle area doing service I think you must have some big traveling road shows up there because the retailers are dying and being replaced with these service companies. it does open it up for you, when you have this many indepenadt around you can buy anything with a good parts list and be covered.
Hello- Thanks for the information you have provided, it’s been very helpful.I have been in the market for almost a year looking for hot tubs and I’m caught at the crossroads. Essentially I’m looking to buy a tub around 6-8k but I want a larger tub that holds at least 7. The one company I keep coming across online is Aqua Living who stands by these spas callled Dr.Welness, and from what I researched they used to be called Laguna Spas. Do you know of these spas or have any opinions om their product? I checked out Hot Tubs and… Read more »
I agree and 16k is batshit crazy, you are paying for their massive advertising and marketing and branding more than for any real quality…
look at getaway spas Bar Harbour, 87×87″ 2 pump built well priced right…
Hot Tubs Inc
Kevin Greenwood
340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
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1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
http://www.hottubsinc.com
+1 410-257-6513
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Thanks for all your info…IT IS a ‘hot tub minefield’ out there..after the wife and watched your vids and read info articles we decided on a Master Twilight 6.2.(with the aquafinesse water system). Lucky for us we have a reputable dealer in Calgary. Keep up the excellent work!…regards…Brent and Elaine
Awesome guys Its a great spa and I know Jacqueline and the girls out there.
if you need anything let me know
Thank you for all of this information. It is a huge thing to try to educate yourself on. And the more I look the more there is to know. And the marketing is really starting to confuse me. That said…what is your opinion of a good dealer in the San Diego/Chula Vista area? And also what is a good hot tub brand available…I don’t think we have Master. But there is Artesian, Cal Spas, Beachcomber, and Marquis. There might be other good ones that I haven’t mentioned. Just trying to avoid the ones on your no list. And did you… Read more »
Hi Danielle Its a labour of love but its starting to crush me 🙂 Of your list, I would recommend the Artesian I visited the factory this year and these guys although small are building a good solid hot tub. Again due to the size of the facility their range of products doesn’t get into crazy therapy massage spas where it is all about the massage but they do cover that other 90% really well. I saw Cal Spas this year and did the factory tour and they are really working at the quality control and back-end support for their… Read more »
I’ve tried to pay as much attention as possible. Really looking for therapeutic massage and $8500 is the budget. I have an Atesian dealer as well as a Marquis dealer and both seem to hit your top 5 must haves list. I really want to know which brand and model Atesian Captiva vs Marquis vector v84 for overall use and therapeutic massage.
Hi Colby I can’t really comment on the performance I have never sat in them but they both look fairly similar I really want to see one of these Vector tubs up close, one issue right off is all the goofy parts, mean you are stuck with them for life for these goofy fittings which are no doubt the reason they did it. I am just in the process of trying to get Marquis to sit down and allow us more visibility of their manufacturing process to verify what they are doing but they are crap at returning correspondence 🙂… Read more »
Looking for just a two to three person hot tub. Is a 110 volt hot tub worth a look?
Hi Don
You live right beside my Mom 🙂
In Florida, if you primarily want hot water and some basic jetting these can be a great item.
I love the new Getaway hot Tub line, built right by a good manufacturer using good parts and shell, and clamped plumbing. Also, the Nordic spa is a good tub normally I would push the full foam insulation on the getaway but again in Fla, it’s not a big deal..
These guys sell Artesian a good brand:
https://www.tricountypoolspa.com/
Your site is amazing, I am lost reading all the conversations and recommendations! We are a family of 4 looking for our first spa. Want something easy to maintain with very little to zero chemicals, good massage therapy options, captains chair with leg massage. In the $6-$8k range. We have a marquis dealer and that seems to be the way to go based on everything I’m reading on your site. Anything else you’d have us check out? We are in Ardmore, PA and there are a number of places within an hour or so. Thank you so much for your… Read more »
Hi Traci The marquis are good spas but don’t buy into all the miracle on board systems, by the hot tub standard and then use Aqua finesse or spa marvel… lower chems and easy to maintain. The Masters come with eco pure standard which is arguably the best free system out there but don’t buy into the miracle on board systems none of them are as good or cost effective as the aftermarket stuff. for the mid ranges they are dead equal, for the high end therapy spas the Master have more lines that really go tot he deep end… Read more »
hi was looking in to buying either a beachcomber 740 model or a master spa twilight ts 7.25 or twilight 8 ts 8.3 was wondering what the better choice would be and how much from Toronto
Both spas are built very well, they use good vinyl ester resin cored hand rolled self-supporting shells and Balboa controls and heating systems. from a performance standpoint, they are in two very different classes, beachcomber 740 compares more the healthy living line of spas from therapy massage standpoint, they do not do any really high-end massage spas. look at the jetting and flow control systems… If you want just well-built spas then wither will do for you but if its all about the massage then the Twilight by a huge margin… the best massage chair in the beachcomber has a… Read more »
Hi.
We live in Coeur d’alene ID. and looking at a Viking Heritage 71. What is your opinion of this brand.
Cant say i am a fan.
Viking has been around forever but never really became a serious player, the problem is unless you get big enough you can’t afford to build everything to the top spec. While the parts are good, I don’t like the plastic shell, I really want a good Hand rolled fibreglass shell. The pipes are not clamped, and the insulation is not my recommended system. all in all its what most spas are, some good, some bad and some ugly…
go see the Artesian spas here:
Priano’s Billiards & Backyards
(208) 292-4126
318 West Haycraft Ave.
Coeur d’Alene, Idaho 83815
prianossales@gmail.com
Hi, I have a Vita,Jacuzzi and Bullfrog dealer in my area and a cal spa. The cal spa dealer is just a rep, he does not have a place to go see the tub. His price is much lower. They have all been around for 15+years. Being a first time buyer its hard to buy a tub that i can’t see first. what do you think? Thanks
First time buyer….been reading your comments and watching your videos….so much information. We have only one dealer close to us, we live out on the Olympic Peninsula, and one of your top recommendations is to buy from a local dealer. They sell these brands….Hot Spring, Hotspot, Cladera and Fantasy. Any recommendations on which to buy?
if they have been selling the line for 5 years or more than even though it’s not my goto brand at least they will know its issues and be able to take care of you.
On the other hand, a great dealer is key, but a great dealer is not about proximity. It’s about knowledge and communication, there are always local handymen or electricians that can swap parts on a spa using the good OEM parts…
Looking for a good round 6′ hot tub. Live near Indianapolis, IN. Your suggestions and thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Master Spas Indianapolis (by Appointment Only)
8070 Castleton Road , Indianapolis, IN, 46250
Phone: 317-999-5922
indysales@masterspas.com
http://www.masterspas.com
Chris: I am trying to find a reliable Hot Tub in the Las Vegas area that I will fit comfortably in. Big fan of your posts at Hot Tub University. I am looker for a larger tub–would like a lounger seat, but I am 6’4″ and most I try don’t seem to fit me correctly–so ok with just getting a 6-7 person seated tub with strong jets and good therapeutic qualities. Have you ever looked at the “poolandsparatings.com” post from 2013 and what can you tell me about their grading or overall scoring of many brands of Hot Tubs? Also… Read more »
I had a cruise around the poolandspararating site and the rating criteria and rankings and it seems totally arbitrary and was before all the cheap pats came into being. I would say they are a Hot Springs dealer 🙂 I can’t find much real info on the Dr wellness a lot of vague references about inexpensive spas being affordable, It’s using some control and heating system I have never seen and I have seen all the top 5. I love the crazy free heat pitch about the friction manifolds ???? The laws of physics are clear and they do apply… Read more »
Hi We are first time buyers and live in Winnipeg. We are trying to decide on a brand which has good insulation (given our extreme winter weather), good jet power for a healthy massage, relatively low maintenance and reliability. We looked at Arctic as they have a nice esthetic (cedar surround) and promote their insulation factor but they seemed to come on with a hard sell and it looks like you have some unfavorable opinions. What other options could you suggest? Do you know of any other recommended companies have the cedar surround? Could the surround be changed to cedar… Read more »
Hi James
Yeah, I am not a big fan of the brand, I tore one apart and can see no justification for the high pricing, Rising dragon jets, no-name control systems they are having made in Asia, very little insulation and they don’t even clamp the plumbing.
dude go see the boys at Krevco, they sell Master, Its one of my goto brands. https://www.krevco.com/
Hi Chris. Great wealth of info. Thanks. Do you have any insight into Dimension One Spas?
bought by the jacuzzi group, last i saw they had gecko electronics and built a decent spa but with a perimiter insualtion.
not on my top list but not a nightmare brand.
In my area ottawa ontario we are looking at 3 different hot tubs; beachcomber, artic and signature and as well there is a guy who sells his hot tubs out of warehouse Pinnacle hot tub. Everyone has a pitch why they are better. Looking for 6 to 8 person hot tub reliable under 10k.
Beachcomber out of that group would be my choice.
Not a fan of Arctic at all, good shell and the rest is middle of the road. Pinnacle again would not be on my floor
Looking for a Master spa dealer in the Spokane, WA area. Seeking a small spa 2 to 3 person thar will retain heat in cold winter usage. I did locate a Marques dealer. Thank you, GHS
HI, first time hot tub buyer. Looking to buy local in San luis obispo, CA. we have 3 choices. Jacuzzi J-335 ($8500), Vita 300 elegant($6400) and Bullfrog RL7($7700).
Any thoughts? thanks for your help
Of the three Bullfrag I guess, at least the parts are compliant, and the insulation is good. Vita is middle of the road in my opinion, the steel frame I do not like, its a gimmick and noisy and usually needed if you are making a thin shell that needs supporting. The biggest problem I have is the reflective insulation systems, they are cheap and not very effective. There are a lot of different reflective surfaces but the truth is it does not change the fact that they are reflective insulation only dealing with radiant heat and the backing has… Read more »
Thanks for the reply and info. I have found a local dealer who sales Marquis.
We are looking at the 425. Do you recommend the Marquis over the Bullfrog?
The Bullfrog seems a little gimmicky.
thanks
PS price is simalier
Hi. I dont know if you still see these new comments now. Our heads are spinning from looking at hot tubs. We have looked at so many. Currently between a Dynasty, a Maxx, or a Mira. We are in the USA in Ohio. Finding reviews on these have been so tough. Maxx acts like thier perimeter insulation is best. We question that with the cold Ohio winters. Have you heard of these brands and have an opinion on which may be best?
dynasty I’m not a fan of, see this video of a dynasty we took on trade… https://youtu.be/RWFY5xQE5sg
Maxx uses the inexpensive insulation systems, and not heard of Mira
Hi again. Apologies for asking again but we are in the market ASAP for a new hot tub. We have stuck way too much money in trying to kerp our old one alive that we are biting the bullet and going new. Need it for chronic back and neck pain management. Used almost daily. Must be goid in cold weather. Looking in St. Cloud MN. Too many manuf. Touting they’re the best and don’t know what to believe. Narrowed down sumwhat to Arctic. Cal Spa. ThermoSpa. Master spa. Any and all info into these brands and others is greatly welcome.… Read more »
Hi Tisha
Bad Timing I was away for a week at races with my boy 🙂
Get the Master, they are built better and efficient and use good parts.
Okay. Im wavering on pulling the pin on the master spa. Theres just so much contradictory info out there. So I’m torn between master spa twilight 7.2, hot springs highlife aria, cal spa huntington or la jolla. I like the motomassage on hot springs & the ATS seat on the cal. Our friends love their Maxx but dont know much about them. The more i look the more confused I’m getting. I need to hear why not to go with one of these. Uhg! Help please.
How about Hot Springs highlife series. Jetsetter?
Your site has been really informative so keep up the great work it’s really appreciated! We live in Eastern Ontario just outside of Ottawa and have been shopping around the local dealers. Wow what an experience as it really is a gong show of information (one says one thing and the other says the opposite). I think we’ve narrowed down our decision (much due to the info on your website and feedback from others). So a little about us. We are 2 adults who will be using the tub for our own use with maybe 5% of the time having… Read more »
These are both well-built tubs, try them out because the reality is its personal preference from here on out…
Thanks for taking the time to reply. It’s really appreciated. May we ask where you are located and do you ever have any tubs sent up to our area?
In this post you talk about expo shows and your concerns with them. Master Spa is having a show in my area soon. There is no Master Spa dealer in my area so should I stay away from the “show” or go ahead and purchase here?
Sorry for the delay been busy and I’m a one man show :-0 Expos are like anything good if they are done right, a shit show if they are not. Just like buying from a local dealer really good if it’s a great dealer a shit show if it’s not… If you are a handy person and don’t mind doing some of your own stuff If you have a good local Handyperson you can pay if the Expo dealer has a good local service guy then this can be a good option to buy a hot tub… But You can… Read more »
I have a 14 yr old daughter with very bad psoriatic arthritis. She also has the skin plaque psoriasis and chlorine is an irritant. I need to get the best massage tub with the best salt system. I’m overwhelmed with decisions . We live on the east coast where everything is accessible. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Hi trisha
be careful of salt systems… they just make chlorine or bromine and are 2-3 times higher chemical than a mineral salt system like Aquafinesse or Mineral Lux watch this video:
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxrbD7P7umA&w=560&h=315]Can’t thank you enough. Really, this was invaluable information. Very grateful.
Hi, what a great resource your site is! We live in Clayton, NY on the Canadian border, and are looking to replace our (still working!) vintage Tiger River Bengal. The Canadian dealers I called either won’t deliver to our area and/or say they would charge sales tax. On the US side, there are 3 dealers who would deliver & service: Hot Springs, Caldera & PDC. We’ve used the Hot Springs dealer over the years with good results. There is a Marquis dealer about 2 1/2 hours away that will not deliver to us, and the Master Spa site directs me… Read more »
Hi Sharon.
if you buy from Canada and they drop ship from the factory in the US there is no tax.
Chris, I’m down to a Sundance 780, Master twilight 8.2, and artesian grand bahama. Please help.
Thanks, Mike
The Artesian or the TS
If it’s all about the massage then the TS for sure, it has a lot more of the expensive large therapy jets than the Artesian.
If it’s more about chilling and entertaining than either the ASrtesian or The Healthy Livings.
Chris I chose the twilight. After they delivered I discovered it was a new 2016. Is there any difference between a 2016 vs a 2017? As a dealer would you ever deliver a year end model instead of current yr model without telling the customer? Also how does if affect warranty? Haven’t decided whether to make them take it back.
That’s a funny one but not unheard of.
Big dealers will often have models from previous years or they might have bought off the factory stock list which sometimes had previous year stock and no there is no difference except some of the jets and they could be exchanged but I actually like the old rotors a little better 🙂
The warranty starts when you took delivery and really it makes little or no difference.
We are trying to decide on a Hot Tub. Choices are limited here in Lake Havasu City, Az. Have narrowed down to Hot Springs Pulse or Tropic Seas Oahu. Any thoughts on these would be appreciated!
tropic seas
Hi! Great website! Looking for a hot tub south of Boston. Have 6 in my family, so something large, with great therapeutic jets for tight muscles. Thinking of master twilight based on your reviews. Are there any other brands/spas that are a good value in this range and area? Also, thinking of perhaps a spa/swim spa combo–any recommendations on those? Thank you so much–this is a mind boggling process!
Hi Tina
For the whole package, the Twilight is hard to touch. There are spas that perform as well that are poorly built and there are spas that are built as well but performance wise are not quite there.
For Swimmers the Trainer 19 Deep hands down… Its the official spa of the Ironman competitions. Flows tonnes of water, 60″ deep, and built and insulated right…
Hi we are first time hot tub buyers. We are looking at Sundance, or one of the Jacuzzi brands. Mostly Sundance, what are your thoughts on this brand?
Both brands have great marketing as do all the big corporate brands,Sundance is owned by the same arent at Jacuzzi… its what they do best. unfortunately the cost of doing great branding and marketing is that there is just not that much left to build the actual product… they use a lot of no name parts they have made for them that just fit thier spas.
Hey what are garden liesure tubs like is cement a good foundation to put a tub on thanx
The red flag here is the insulation system. They like to advertise the Icynene name and to say they are using expanded foam but it looks like they are only using a thin layer on the shell. this is doubly bad because the pitch is all about the heat from the motor being trapped under the spa and soaking into the shell but they have insulation on the shell 🙂 It’s like bad on top of stupid on top of cheap. they also use a gecko controls I really like to see a Balboa system. Can’t find anything about the… Read more »
Hi! Thank you for all the information. It’s a bit mind-boggling! This will be our first hot tub purchase, I haven’t found anyone in Boise Idaho who sells master spas. So it’s between the Marquis vector 84 and the Hot Spring Aria. The Hot Spring is $12599 with the Ace system included (promotion) With a 5 year warranty. The Vector is $7795. I think it was a 2 year warranty. Both are reputable dealers and good reviews on their customer service. That’s a HUGE price difference, and from what I’ve read here…I think I know what you might say? ????… Read more »
Buy the Artesian… better more reliable, and easier to source competitive parts for, also don’t buy into the miracle onboard chemical reduction systems, ACE is a salt system that just makes chlorine or bromine… there is better tech out there for sure…
The Artesian? Who makes that?
Still not sure what you meant about The Artesian?
We are going to wet test the Marquis. Any suggestions?
Thank you!!
I found an Artesian dealer here. Do you recommend that over the Marquis?
Thank you!
They are both comparable either spa should do well. I prefer Marquis but for no real reason other than you never hear bad things about them
Thank you very much!
Hi, we are also looking for help in Sacramento ca to purchase hot tub. Really appreciate all the info on your site, things not on our radar and we try to be educated shoppers. We are looking at a Marquis 425, a cal spa gen ll S-621lL Hawaiian and a Master HL 630 or HL 616L so far as we want lower profile, 110v if possible and of course a good price. Any feedback or input on these or maybe others is much appreciated.
Hi Tricia
The Marquis or the Master would be my preference. but have a look at the new Getaway Hot Tubs Your Master dealer can get them and they are arguably one of the best plug-in models out there.
thanks so much for sharing your knowledge ! I’m shopping for a 5-6 person looked at caLadera, hot springs, sundance and masters (HC8 – put deposit at a show today price is 7700 with rocket cover and extended warranty 5/7… saw some scary reviews about shows and masters bug u seem to be a fan am I doing the right thing with my hard earned $’s?!? I have 72 hours to change my mind help!
I don’t really read reviews anymore for anything, What started as a great idea to provide honest feedback has been taken over by the industry. There is no way to know if they are real and I always think the best ones and the worst ones are bullshit. The expo events are a big target. They come into a town and sell a pile of tubs in a city. The local dealers who live and work there get furious… You have to know that there is a real high likelihood that those guys are going to slam the event every… Read more »
Hi Thanks again for all the helpful info. the show I went to was in Manchester nh and was actually sponsored by a local dealer. I called this morning to ask about hl 7 vs hl 8 because I am nervous about decision to go bigger due to energy cost in nh. was pleasantly surprised when phone was answered on 2nd ring. Lewis was very helpful too! i hope the experience will continue to exceed expectations. I guess im looking for confirmation im spending my hard earned money on the h8. 7700 including rocket cover and extended 5 year warranty… Read more »
Hi. looking for help. I live in Simpsonville SC. looking for a hot tub ( 6-8 person) that is extra deep . I like it for massage and relaxation. I have read several of your reviews. Can you give me some guidance on who to contact in my area for the best spa available. Looks like master spa dealer is about 1 hour and 45 minutes away. just reached out to someone who may carry marquis in my town. any other thoughts?
Yeah Genko sells the marquis that’s the only brand in your area I would buy, speak to the master dealer frankly 1.5 hours away for a busy dealer is nothing…