User Posts: admin

A small number of Hot Tub companies have started making parts that just fit their spas. These proprietary parts are cheaper, fail more often, and lock you into ...

How does the US vs. Canadian Dollar affect your hot tub purchase?   In this time of low Canadian and high US dollar, there are some big advantages ...

How many pumps you need in a high-end performance hot tub is a good question. There is a lot of marketing and spin around this question with sales guys ...

The Top Brands I have 3 brands I evaluate to be doing all the right things or close to it. Master, Coast and Artesian . These companies are spending the money ...

Health Benefits of Hydrotherapy   Hydrotherapy or water therapy refers to a series of exercises involving the use of heated water in a pool to ...

Hot Tub Insulation Systems By The Numbers   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XhgwOQKQFs   I know a lot about hot tubs, and insulation ...

Therapy Massage Spas Shopping for a therapy massage spa is a tough thing, the truth is 90% of the spas out there are very similar when it comes to massage ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XhgwOQKQFs   Recently some Β companies Like Hydropool, and Canadian spa Company (Walmart, Home Depot) have begun ...

Here's my video breakdown on salt water systems and why the technology hasn't aged well. https://youtu.be/q8KRKGZrMfE   Should you order a salt ...

This Black bear knows how to live, after breaking through a fence he has a dip in the pool and then relaxes in the hot tub!    

Browsing All Comments By: admin
  1. Reply
    admin February 26, 2019 at 1:08 pm

    Hi Michelle

    For sure the Hollywood.

    I had a Vector and tore it apart and was not impressed. plus all the goofy parts are gonna be a nightmare to replace I found the jets to be flimsy the face plate is thin and it supports the spindle, I think they are not going to last and replacements will be a lot more than regular jets. plus I found it very gimmicky… all the extra diverters serve no real purpose and make it a complicated mess.

    Overall I was displeased with the quality control from the Marquis factory, they have reached out and assured us it is not the norm but so far have failed to do anything to prove the point, until they step up and get me in for a factory inspection, and or send me another tub to inspect or something concrete I’m really not willing to endorse the line. See the review here:

    go see these guys and compare the build on the Twilight the pricing should be similar and the build is better and the performance too.

    Bluewater Pools & Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2541 Dougall Ave, Windsor, ON N8X 1T5
    bluewaterpools.ca
    +1 519-969-8561

  2. Reply
    admin February 6, 2019 at 1:40 pm

    Hi Than

    I have the cost price for almost every brand but they always come with nondisclosure agreements and I could get sued for disclosing the information.

    Dealers buy at a price based on their volume and how they pay and the landed cost can vary wildly depending on those factors and proximity to the factory.

    Shipping less than Truckload (LTL) can add a grand a tub… shipping full truckloads can get down to a couple hundred, paying before delivery can save 5% paying by transfer over credit card can save another 5% and using a floor finance package can add another 5-10% There are a lot of variables…

    The truth is like any competitive industry everyone is trying to make enough margin to stay viable and get a decent income but not a lot of retailers are getting rich.

    Yes for sure you can get a better deal by paying cash but save that card till the end. a dealer saves 3-5% by not having to pay credit card processing fees so if you get a price for paying with a card hammer them for the 5% for cash… also go right now in the slow season!

  3. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    Sorry Eric,

    This site is getting away from me, it used to be my personal rant space but now it’s something entirely different πŸ™‚

    I need staff to help but I haven’t figured out how to monetize it and not loose the authentic real approach! if I sell my soul for the money (offers every week into the lower mid six digit frame) then the site is nothing but another discussion forum or other bullshit site, sometimes I just need a day or two off πŸ™‚

    Hydropool and arctic I don’t really like for the similar reasons. They both do a few thing good and a bunch of stuff cheaply and spend a scad on the spin marketing, branding and BS. like Hrdropool has a good parts list but insulation and old school filtration systems and floor suctions, reflective insulation systems??? inexpensive solutions that are not good tech.

    Arctic is even worse, the cheapest parts you can buy, one of the cheapest insulation systems out there, no clamps on the plumbing lines and loads and loads of spin pitches and brand marketing.

    let me see what you have out there.

  4. Reply
    admin July 4, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    The Hybrid is a trademark gimmick that has the pumps outside the spa and is bad tech…

    what you are refering to is actually a better definition of “Hybrid” but usually called full foam with the pumps under the spa which is the best.

    The heat reclamation is pretty straight forward.

    The Venturis present on every spa and the ozone system always draw in air and inject that into the water so if the intakes are in the motor area the heat from the pumps gets injected directly into the water. it’s funny because the guys selling the cheap Perimeter insulation systems never talk about this because it really destroys their whole pitch… On one hand they claim that all the “trapped heat” is helping but they ignore the fact that the air is always being circulated when the pump is running which by the laws of physics means it is pumped out of the perimieter and into the tub and then out under the cover. Meanwhile, the outside cold air has to be drawn in to replace the cavity air… it’s why the whole pitch about the air space being an insulator is so non-science… in a thermopane window the intentionally remove the air and or fill it space with nothing or a captive agent with a high R value and then it is sealed so the air can not move… once the air can move beteen the zones it becomes a mover of heat, not an insulator….

  5. Reply
    admin January 18, 2017 at 9:57 pm

    Visitor Rating: 5 Stars

  6. Reply
    admin October 26, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    Visitor Rating: 5 Stars

  7. Reply
    admin October 21, 2016 at 2:49 am

    Visitor Rating: 4 Stars

  8. Reply
    admin October 21, 2016 at 1:52 am

    Visitor Rating: 1 Stars

  9. Reply
    admin September 8, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    Hi

    I am not aware of the brand Dr. Wellness.

    Ask the questions…

    Are the joints glued and clamped?
    What brand name are the jets, pumps and electronic controls? (you want ideally Balboa and waterways and you want threaded jets)
    Is the shell supported underneath by props and supports? (if there are props and supports it usually indicated a thin shell although they will pitch it as a bonus)

  10. Reply
    admin May 22, 2019 at 9:01 am

    Hey Kelvin

    You have two good brands available at local dealers there.

    Abel pool and spa sells Artesian they are sold well-built units, they also sell marquis which is not far off but does not have the consistency we see from Artesian their QC seems to be a bit lower. they also carry American Whirlpool which is middle of the pile.

    Then you have Oasis hot tub and they just have a bunch of goofy bad brands but they also have Bullfrog and Dreamaker.

    My goto would be the Artesian, then the bullfrog for higher and for entry level the Dreamaker. I would not look at any of the other ones seriously, they may try and upsell you to these because they make more money on the heavily branded lines but stay with these three.

  11. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 8:46 pm

    I toured the Cal Spa Factory, it wasnt terrible but does not make the cut for my recommendation. Too many issues and too much spin. That marketing about the strongest shell and the steel??? Its a joke the piece of “steel” you could almost pick your teeth worh and it’s just a normal pedestal supported shell. They have way too many lines and skews and that means a nightmare of ac issues. And some have great parts some dont and some have great insualtion and some dont… the other line is an eastern European line it’s a mess of propritary parts and half measures. Run away…

    Go see south east spas in west palm.

  12. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 2:10 pm

    Michael, what Artesian are you comparing to the Twilight? an $8500 Artesian is one of their lower end its certainly not an elite that would compare with the Twilight or MPL… its likely a south sea or island that would be closer to a healthy living or clarity…

  13. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 2:08 pm

    Hi Tiffany

    Cost is a good spa, I know how they build and they are doing good stuff but they have been haunted by quality control issues, I know they are working on it but the reality is there seems to be a few lemons come out fo the factory.

  14. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 2:07 pm

    Hi Stacey

    We have a lot fo Four winds here from a few years ago, they weren’t too bad but not to the standards fo the top stuff, the biggest issue was shell failures, we had over a dozen in our market… stay with the Artesian.

  15. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 1:44 pm

    The bigger concern with the Caldera is the proprietary parts… that invensys system traditionally has been expensive to maintain and had a lot of issues over the years… My number one is never buying proprietary parts there is simply nothing good for the end user, you want the solid reliable OEM parts.

  16. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 1:42 pm

    Could not find much. never heard fo them but right off the heating and control systems is second rate Insist on Balboa.

  17. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 1:42 pm

    The Top brand and the only one I would even touch in that market is the bullfrog, The Great Escape sells them but they also sell Jacuzzi and Sundance (same parent co, which I would stay away from.

  18. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 1:38 pm

    In that market def the Artesian at Leisure is the goto I would not even consider the Hot springs, great marketing, and hype, and branding but gimmicky mid-grade build with proprietary parts… The only other possible and its a step down for sure would be the Bullfrog at Land o dreams

  19. Reply
    admin May 21, 2019 at 1:33 pm

    Yeah, the shows are a lot of hype.

    Any good high volume warehouse direct guy can do the same or better.

  20. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 4:40 pm

    Hey Ron.

    I’m with you on the D1 worries.

    The bullfrog is not a bad option but the truth is they sell very few of the replacement seat sections. I have a love hate relaishonship with the line. I like the modular design. It makes manufacturing efficient and reliable but dont like how it limits the jets to just those pods and they spina fair bit of pseudo science with regards to flow rates. Also I’m really not a fan of the thin pedestal supported shells. All in all it’s not a bad unit and in my top 10 for sure.

    The artesian would be a superior model and better value for the money.

  21. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 11:03 am

    I do sell Master in my local market but would happily sell artesian or a few other select brands πŸ™‚

    The reality is there are a few great, well-built lines then a pile of overpriced slick marketing brands and a pile of just low-end price point stuff, the blog site I never expected to be so huge it was just my place to yell against all the bullshit in my industry πŸ™‚ this CBC article explains it, the main difference is you can not pay me to say something that I would not say and do not believe to be true… I’m not a shill my integrity is important to me. most rating sites and advice sites are pay to play, I’m not… https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/consumer-canada-1.5115875

    The expos are what they are, a dealer selling spas. They are no better price than any good hi volume retailer and the reality is with so many tubs being bought from events, in general, there are lots of independent service guys now so service on good brands using good parts is not an issue.

  22. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 10:53 am

    No dealers out there but there is an event seller ill hook you up with.

  23. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 10:46 am

    Hi Dan

    Pricing is tricky, frankly its all over the place and tends to be location specific, also dealer volume, proximity to the factory and local cost of doing business are big effectors… I would expect you can get a TS in and around 10k and HL around 9k but again I don’t do pricing so don’t quote me πŸ™‚

    Warranty is never an indicator of the quality of the product. every manufacturer knows the cost of a year one through five for its product, I see crappy overpriced heavily branded lines all the time with five year warranties its part of the reasons they are expensive :-0) they just built the failure rate into the price you pay πŸ™‚ plus dealers can upgrade warranties just, make sure its in writing on the invoice. wether its worth it or not is up to your risk aversion… for some piece of mind is worth it for others its not… the reality is with a good build and good parts 3 years should see little or no issues unless it was something wrong out of the gate then it fails right away so I would either buy no extended or go out to 5 years.

    Yeah, I think the Eco pure is zinc copper Ion it helps for sure but every hot tub company overstates the effectiveness of their miracle on board chem reduction systems… What none of them want you to know is that none of the fancy onboard systems are anywhere near as effective or low chem or easy to manage as the aftermarket stuff like Spa marvel of Aquafinesse.

  24. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 10:36 am

    Sundance used to be ok but since they got bought out by the group that owns jacuzzi, Hydropool, D1 and a bunch of other lines I would not have them on my list of possibles. typically these big corporate guys are great at the marketing branding and advertising but not so good at hot tubs πŸ™‚

  25. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 10:35 am

    Hey Josh

    Royal Pools & Spas sells Artesian 5008 NY-17M, New Hampton best bet locally

  26. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 9:55 am

    Hey Chad.

    Cant, you order the full foam package with the celebrity line? if not then yer right its an issue… But the Caldera has got bigger issues its from the Watkins group, big branding, and fancy marketing but full of proprietary parts and when I reviewed the forums they were one of the lines with the highest number of people with failing hot tubs looking for help.

  27. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 9:49 am

    Never heard of them! Right off they have a big strike, You want a Balboa control system… no real info on the site though just fluff.

    Stick with the Artesian. also check out the Twilight here, it is going to outperform the Artesian and they are built the same with the same parts.

    Hot Tub Store
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    Details from Google Maps
    8787 Hall Rd, Utica, MI 48317
    thehottubstoremi.com
    +1 586-739-9111
    4.2View in Google Maps

  28. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 9:46 am

    Brand-wise you have Allstate Home Leisure Sterling Heights selling Artesian. It is a good brand but they also carry some crap lines and i don’t know the dealer, but when I see a guy carrying the big heavily marketed and branded lines brands it usually means they don’t know much about hot tubs πŸ™‚

    Also, check out these guys, I know them they are solid dealers and carry master which is one of my top tubs.

    Hot Tub Store
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8787 Hall Rd, Utica, MI 48317
    thehottubstoremi.com
    +1 586-739-9111
    4.2View in Google Maps

  29. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 9:40 am

    Hey Dallas

    for ground prep a patio stone base is perfect, I know that patio stones heave with the freeze-thaw cycles but nothing ever freezes under a hot tub πŸ™‚ it will be fine.

    Of those brands, the Beachcomber is the best Built but if you want performance look elsewhere they just do not build any hi-end therapy massage spas. The Coast or Bullfrog would be good options as well, the bullfrog is more consistent in their build but Coast has higher-end performance models.

    Arctic and Hot Sporings would be bottom of my list, fancy marketing, branding, and advertising but mid-end spas full of gimmicky tech and proprietary parts.

  30. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 9:35 am

    Let me dig around and see what I can find you.

  31. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 9:32 am

    Hi Michel

    Both well-built spas but the dove will outperform the grand cayman. plus I really do not like the foot dome, they are a tripping hazard, people got rid of these a decade ago they are a pain in the ass all for one little 1.5″ low flow jet…

  32. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 9:29 am

    Hi

    last I looked they were using Roxul insulation, they build a full foam rotational molded line which is a nice line but double check on the acrylics.

  33. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 9:28 am

    Hi Arvin

    Beachcomber is great build quality but if you want a high-end massage spa they just don’t build any models in that category. All their tubs are pretty mid-end perfor4mance wise.

    If you want the really good neck and shoulder massage you need to find a spa with the big 3.5″ neck jets, most just use the little 1.5″ jets and they just do not move enough water for big muscle masses like shoulder neck.

    Arguably the best massage seat in any spa right now is the Twilights, they have the ability to divert an entire 6 hp pump tot he main captains seat and they have 4 3.5″ high flow neck and shoulder jets.

    As for salt its pretty old tech and TBH outdated… All salt does is get you to around 2ppm of chlorine, its finicky, and does nothing to help stabilize the water, you still need to drain every 3 months or so. The truth that the hot tub manufacturers don’t want you to know is that none of the onboard systems, (salt, UV, AOP, Ion, etc) are anywhere near as good as the additives like Spa marvel or Aquafinesse.

    Hit my buddy Griffen up tell him Chris says hi.

    Master spa Toronto
    Griffin Ryan
    griffryan@hotmail.com
    1 (416) 779-0563

  34. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 7:15 am

    Yeah, the Artesian for sure. and their entry level is as well made as the higher end. Those other four are either cheap Chinese made or mid-grade with fancy branding and overpriced I would not even consider any of the other four.

    2 pumps with a good mix of high flow (big jets) and low flow(small jets is nice… for massage the size of the jet is more important.

  35. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 7:12 am

    bang for the buck its an awesome spa, rugged reliable good parts and good insulation, no issues at all.

  36. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 7:12 am

    If you go with one of these brands they all have similar issues so make sure the dealer has been with the brand for a long time. You will pay more than they are worth by a lot, and have regular service, but if the dealer has had the line a long time they will know the nuances and be able to keep you happy. These goofy brands with proprietary parts are all about a good local dealer.

  37. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 7:10 am

    Hey Jim

    sit in it and see, the funny thing ios tall people like that HL line better. and measure the real depth from inside from the floor to the lip some times they are sitting on a pedestal to make the number better not sure about that one though.

  38. Reply
    admin May 20, 2019 at 7:08 am

    Yeah I’ve seen it before, you can’t get it out they will have to replace it or cut him a deal.

  39. Reply
    chris wheatley May 20, 2019 at 7:03 am

    Hi sorry for the delay.

    I would not buy any of the brands right there possibly the Cal but make sure you get the full foam upgrade and the ones with the Balboa control.

    the best around would be the Artesian spas up the coast a bit at Comox Fireplace & Patio in Courtenay they also carry hot Springs but I would not buy one of those.

    Also, check out the beachc0ombers and the Coast spas down in Duncan. Of the three brands the Beachcomber is built best but has the lowest performance, the cal and Coast are built well but both companies have had QC issues.

  40. Reply
    admin May 17, 2019 at 1:41 pm

    There a couple of decent brands and one all-star.

    Todd my buddy up in Sacramento sells and service that area and he is top of the pile. its worth the trip up there plus you have like 10 service guys within a few miles of you so local does not matter.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6620 Lonetree Blvd #500, Rocklin, CA 95765
    sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.7View in Google Maps

  41. Reply
    admin May 17, 2019 at 1:36 pm

    Hi Bob

    I like the Marquis spas and i think the issue is quality control, not general build… I god a bad one for sure. its not unusual for the smaller shops to have more lemons come out, the bigger shops streamline and have hacks to keep the consistent quality that smaller shops can’t adapt.

    Yer guy is dead right, turn the temp down put in economy mode and get someone to treat it weekly, there is more service on units that are shut down for periods of time for sure.

  42. Reply
    admin May 15, 2019 at 11:31 am

    Hi Michel

    Man Arctic, jacuzzi and Hot Springs are the worst on my list… these guys sell mid-grade spas with proprietary parts, mid-grade construction techniques and sell them like they are top end spas all based on marketing, branding adverting and nefarious pseudoscience. Canadian spa company is 100% made in China and Integrity is just cheap…

    I scoured your area and there are just no good options out there… consider the call out charge is gonna be like $50 every 3 years or so… its not really a big deal and there is a service guy near you called Desert pools and spas that can fix you tub if you stay with a good parts list and a well buiol;d spa like Artesian, master, Beachcomber etc…

  43. Reply
    admin May 15, 2019 at 11:20 am

    awesome glad it worked out let me know if you need anything.

  44. Reply
    admin May 15, 2019 at 11:18 am

    hey George Im with you πŸ™‚

    I bought a couple in a long time ago, they were mid grade but the big problem is you can’t access anything and even one good sized person in the tub and you had to get your garden hose out to top it off, there is just not enough displacement area for two people.

  45. Reply
    admin May 15, 2019 at 11:14 am

    nearest 2 guys I have are Budget pools in Peabody carrying Artesian and crocker sales in Woburn selling master… ain’t much coming up around you man.

  46. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 5:08 pm

    Hi Michael.

    I’ve looked at a few Coasts but never done the full tear down. I have offered to have them bring me into the factory to see it all first hand but no plane tickets yet…

    the quality control has always been their biggest issue, I spoke to 3 separate ex-dealers and they all said the same thing they left because just too many tubs coming in with things wrong.

  47. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 5:06 pm

    Hi Mark

    Budget pools in Peabody do Artesian and crocker sales in Woburn do master.

    I don’t know the guys at Budget But the crocker boys have helped a lot of my customers and had good feedback all around.

    Both brands are top of the pile from build Insulation and quality control.

    Most of the upgrades are gimmicky on all brands unless its an upgrade for the insulation to a full foam system.

    For super easy water care forget all the onboard systems, they are all ok but none as good as the aftermarket add ons like Spa Marvel and aquafinesse…

  48. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 4:05 pm

    Hi Donna

    there are 2 local good brands I don’t know the dealers but here they are:

    The best is the Artesian spas sold at Spa & Pool Center The dealer is an unknown and they also carry Strong which I would not have on my list of good options πŸ™‚ but the brand Artesian is solid 8403 W Fairview Ave, Boise.

    A good second option is The Bullfrog at Leisure Time Inc. 9710 W Fairview Ave, Boise, ID 83704 leisuretimeinc.com

  49. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 3:58 pm

    Yo Homie!!!

    That’s me old stomping grounds πŸ™‚ Beamsville actually but close enough πŸ™‚

    Man there is this awesome lady down there I know really well and she will take great care of you. tell her Chris says hi!

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2
    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

    Debbie is the owner and her email is info@niagarahottubs.com
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    227 Bunting Rd Unit F, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    View in Google Maps

  50. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 3:49 pm

    That’s crazy.

    I need two things, I need the serial number and the details of who you bought it from, I will hammer these asshats and put some serious pressure on them to get it right.

    That’s outrageous, this company is owned by the same meatheads that own Jacuzzi, Dimension One, Sundance and a few more we can make them fix this. you verify this info and we will go front page on the site and make them fix it, 100,000 buyers a year come here and they will very quickly come to heel…

  51. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 3:43 pm

    Check out Spas and more in Spas & More Inc 2260 Tamiami Trail, Port Charlotte, FL 33952 they do Dreamaker and Marquis both good brands but stay away from the other brands they carry TBH its a bit worrying when I see a dealer with so many conflicting brands, its like they have no idea what really makes a good hot tub…. the next closest is the biggest dealer in Florida they sell and service everywhere I would look Specifically at the Ochos Rios for the price point and the Twilights of HL series for higher end therapy massage. I know and trust these guys

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
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    4260 Cleveland Ave, Fort Myers, FL 33901
    southeastspas.com
    +1 239-202-0225
    5.0View in Google Maps

  52. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 11:41 am

    No worries man, I pulled your area up from your IP address anyway πŸ™‚

  53. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 11:40 am

    I don’t get into pricing too much because it changes from area to area, its random as hell.

    in general, at this price, you can get lots of good spas, bang for the buck the roto Moulds are awesome, they are durable and reliable. the getaway bar harbor se is great value for the money hit these guys up

    Master Pool & Spa
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    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.4View in Google Maps

  54. Reply
    admin May 14, 2019 at 11:38 am

    Hi Rory

    I dont deal in pricing very much because its just too random from area to area.

    but bang for the buck at this price range keep it simple… spend the money on the tub not any of the weird upgrades like stereos. and miracle chemical reduction systems.

    Personally look at the bar Harbour SE from getaway Hot tubs… great spas durable and good prices… also Nordic is in this call although the Getaway has better insulation and thicker shell…

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.4View in Google Maps

  55. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 6:59 pm

    No worries!

    Happy hot tubbing

  56. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 6:58 pm

    Artesian is a great hot tub company building reasonably priced well built tubs.

    Hot Springs great marketing corporation making mid grade spas and selling them at twice what they are worth on the back of massive advertising, marketing, and branding campaigns… in my opinion…

    Chalk and cheese… Buy the arteisian

  57. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 6:43 pm

    That’s a tough one dude. I really dont do much about pricing. It’s all over the place and varies from area to area, then you have the asshats like jacuzzi selling mid grade plonk at 2x what they are worth based solely on big advertising, marketing and branding budgets πŸ™‚ it’s a shit show πŸ™‚

    Best bang for the buck? Gettaway hot tubs or Nordic spas. The roto moulded tubs are a great option at a great price.

  58. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 6:39 pm

    The Marquis are great tubs, I really believe that they have a few quality control issues but generally build a good spa. The American Whirlpool is several magnitudes lower on my scale. Definately not a brand I would recommend from what I have seen.

    While ozone technology is sound hot tub ozone systems are a bot of a joke really. To do it right you need to pre treat the air going into the generator, then have it go through 2 or 3 slow flow absorption tanks then an ozone off gas destruct system. It would cost a couple grand on a got tub and hot tub ozone systems cost $150 πŸ™‚

  59. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 4:20 pm

    Yeah you hit it on the head.

    I discourage both. Fusion air sounds great but for the money there are way better options… also the lighting on the twilight is awesome already the afterglow makes it too damn bright.

  60. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 4:18 pm

    Hey Jim.

    From a build quality standpoint the HL or Twilight are the same. Performance wise the twilight is going to blow it away. The jetting on the HL is like most top Brands, a few of the good high flow jets and mostly low flow small jets. The twilight is all high flow therapy massage jets and flow control.

    Yeah a thick 5″ tapered cover is worth it. Any thicker not snow does not melt on a 5″ -3″ tapered cover.

    Warrany is not indicitve of quality. It’s just built into the price πŸ™‚ buying extended warranties is worth it if you want a fixed cost. Not if you like to roll the dice πŸ™‚

    When it comes to service techs the more important thing is making sure the tub you buy does not have propritary parts like the jacuzzi And Arctic. If they use the good OEM parts it’s not rocket science to fix… where service guys fall apart is when they are faced with a goofy parts list.

  61. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    Last I looked the standard was poly carbonite. It will hold up fine. Abs is not needed but no real downside if it gives you piece of mind.

  62. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    Hi Dave.

    They are all decent chem reduction systems but I would not order any of them.

    The truth that no manufacturers want you to know is that none of the onboard chemical reduction systems are nearly as low chemical, easy to manage and inexpensive as the aftermarket add-ins like Spa Marvel, Aquafitness etc…

    I would not order any personally. The nature 2 cartridge i like in conjuction with the enzymes.

  63. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 2:57 pm

    Hi Pamela

    Artesian is a well-built swim spa with good performance, great build quality, OEM readily available top parts, and good Quality control.

    Hydropool is a great marketing company that was bought recently by an equity investment group that typically builds mid-grade products with loads of proprietary parts so they can hold you to ransom for parts, substandard insulation systems.

    Artesian is in my top 5 Hydropool is not even in my top 20.

    Honestly, there is simply no comparison the Artesian hands down is the only one I would consider out of that group.

  64. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 12:34 pm

    wifi is a pain in the ass on every hot tub.. the water is a natural shield, try a signal booster near the spa.

  65. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 12:32 pm

    Hi Brian

    that’s a great price, anything under 12k is good.

    I do know aqua spas they have 5 locations and I’ve met the owner several times, they have a good reputation and I would not expect you to have any issues with them.

  66. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 12:24 pm

    Hi Michael

    It’s a great tub from a performance standpoint, it’s got the 3.5″ high flow neck jets and a monster jet in the foot area. Hard to say, I don’t really get into pricing the area is expensive I would expect that tub to run around the $8k mark but again it’s just a guess…

    As for upgrades I would not buy any. its kitted out really well.

  67. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 12:13 pm

    Hi Michael

    Sorry dude I’m your neighbor to the northeast coast Canada.

  68. Reply
    admin May 13, 2019 at 12:06 pm

    Thanks! Happy hot tubbing!

  69. Reply
    admin May 12, 2019 at 7:35 pm

    I’m not a fan of hot springs… They are the corporate approach to spas which means build it mid-grade, use parts that the buyers can only get from you so you can reap profits forever from them and spend scads on advertising and marketing and wrap it all up in a lovey branding campaign πŸ™‚ its the model that wrecked the appliance industry and is wrecking the hot tub industry.

    try these guys

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.7View in Google Maps

  70. Reply
    admin May 12, 2019 at 7:21 pm

    Nope… the only royal spa I know of was a guy named Nick bullett back 20 years ago…

  71. Reply
    admin May 12, 2019 at 7:20 pm

    Tim’s Pools & Spas
    Status: Unverified

    We do not know the dealer but they carry Artesian which is a good reliable spa.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1065 Reading Rd, Mason, OH 45040
    http://www.timshottubstoremasonoh.com
    +1 513-777-3833
    4.9View in Google Maps

  72. Reply
    admin May 12, 2019 at 7:19 pm

    Hi Kathleen.

    NO… 3k is not enough for a well-built new spa, you are buying junk that will fail and wasting your money… buy used.. send me ones you see ill help you

  73. Reply
    admin May 12, 2019 at 7:18 pm

    Hi Stephen. its a great idea and we looked at that but… the volume of water needed to flush them out like this would be massive πŸ™‚ using a good tool like the dishwasher or a filter flosser cleans them really well and easily…

  74. Reply
    admin May 12, 2019 at 7:16 pm

    Happy hot tubbing πŸ™‚

  75. Reply
    admin May 11, 2019 at 3:09 pm

    Hi Tracey

    I know a few of the guys there, I know they have some bad reviews but I’ve sent them a lot of people and never had anything but good feedback.

    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006

  76. Reply
    admin May 11, 2019 at 1:58 pm

    Hey julie.

    Artesian is a well-built spa using great parts, great insulation glued and clamped plumbing and has good quality control. They are rated number two in my ratings

    Hydropool is owned by an equity investment company, They use a thin cradle supported shell, proprietary parts, an insulation system that had huge warning issued about it all over Canada and North America in the 80’s when they tried selling the crap into the housing market and now its the miracle insulation system in the unregulated hot tub industry… the best thing about this brand is the marketing, branding and adverting its not even in my top 20

  77. Reply
    admin May 11, 2019 at 1:52 pm

    Sounds like a good deal. the drip on the pump best case is a gasket, mid-case is a plumbing leak (%150-$200) worst case is a pump seal, $350-$500

  78. Reply
    admin May 11, 2019 at 1:50 pm

    Hey Glen.

    You got nothing up there I would buy man πŸ™

    See my buddy Griffin he has a service guy local and can get you good products at good prices.

    Master spa Toronto
    Griffin Ryan
    griffryan@hotmail.com
    1 (416) 779-0563

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1535 Meyerside Dr #16, Mississauga, ON L5T 1M9
    View in Google Maps

  79. Reply
    admin May 11, 2019 at 1:49 pm

    Hi Andre

    they are just a rebrand of the Viking swim spa, same company same everything just a new name to run away from all the nightmare reviews and bad rating from the Viking name πŸ™‚ run away it is what it is, a cheap swimmer…

  80. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 8:13 pm

    Hi Kayla

    I like the build quality and parts on the entire Master line, performance wise most of the stuff is the standard upper end but the Twilight is truly in a class of its own for performance and the LSX is a great Luxury spa. their entry level stuff From getaway is just simple solid as well overall they are a good group and have direct customer support which is rare.

    Some areas you can get away with remote dealers, the best is to call and ask… make sure you find out if there is going to be extra charges for the service (likely an extra $50 on the call out…)

  81. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 8:09 pm

    Hi Guys!

    Yep, its what I always preach… stay the hell away from proprietary parts, its a scam…

    Stick with brands that use the good reliable OEM parts, stay away from goofy shit like circ pumps and miracle chem reduction systems… call my buddy Griffin Ryan Griffin Ryan
    griffryan@hotmail.com
    1 (416) 779-0563

  82. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 8:06 pm

    These guys have 5 locations around you and I know and trust them they have been around for 25 odd years.

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.0View in Google Map

  83. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 8:04 pm

    Man that sucks, frankly, IMHO both those brands are crap, the best thing about them is the brochure and the bullshit marketing.

    I got nothing around you at all, I need to populate that area,

    hit my buddy Dan up, I’m sure he will have someone out there for you

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU APPROVED RETAILER

    When you buy from a Hot Tub University approved retailer we will stand behind you if you ever need help.
    Ben and the guys at East Coast spas have helped out a ton of people coming to this site. They do it all, Great Spas, great price, good solid customer care and experience.

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 877-755-7727

  84. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 7:39 pm

    Hi Ike

    I swear I answered this post already but does not show up! I bet I got halfway through and went away and closed the window πŸ™‚

    Jac and Sundance are owned by the same equity investment group, their business model seems to be to build mid-grade and use proprietary parts with engineered obsolescence so they own you for life for parts replacement, then spend loads of cash on brand awareness, bullshit and old school advertising to lure you in πŸ™‚ its a great corporate business model for profits but crap for the end user…

    Columbus has loads fo service people in it, there must be a lot fo local event sales…

    Shit!!! I just realized why this was familiar!!!! you emailed me and posted! You owe me a coffee!!!

  85. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 7:24 pm

    Ok dude.. here we go… buy me a coffee though this one was a big ask πŸ™‚

    South Seas 743D – Artesian built, good build quality, middle of the road performance with the standard mix of 2 high flow therapy jets and no real neck or foot jet systems to speak of. good QC out fo the factory but zero customers direct support

    Master Getaway Ocho Rios CS -Master built roto mold one-piece design, good build quality, middle of the road performance with the standard mix of mid flow therapy jets and no real neck jets but one monster jet in the wall that you can put a whole pump to for feet πŸ™‚ Good QC out of the factory and good customer direct support

    South Seas 726D – Artesian built, good build quality, Between the Ochos Rios and the 743D performance with the standard mix of 2 high flow therapy jets and no real neck or foot jet systems to speak of. Good QC out fo the factory but zero customers direct support

    Omega B 30 – Coast spas built, good build quality, the best performance spa of the group with lots of mid and high flow therapy jets but again almost useless 1.5″ low flow neck and shoulder jets. and no real foot jet systems to speak of. not great QC out fo the factory they send out some lemons and zero customers direct support

    Celebrity Broadway- Coast spas built, good build quality, Upper middle performance with lots of high and mid flow jets but only a single pump, with this many higher flow jets it should be w a twin pump unit. But again no low flow neck and shoulder jets. and no real foot jet systems to speak of. not great Quality Control out of the factory they send out some lemons and the have zero customers direct support.

    PDC Premium Carmel – I’m touring the factory in June, sorry I don’t know much but they seem to think they can make the grade on my ratings and have agreed to open the factory and the staff to me for evaluation… ill have to get back to you, but in general they seem to build a good spa and have been around for a while. performance wise again this model will be upper-middle and again no real neck/shoulder or foot jet system,

    Hot Springs Hot Spot SX – These guys are owned by a big equity investment company, mid-grade build and proprietary parts with fancy branding and marketing, performance wise its all the little low flow jets then that daft moto massager.. its basically two garden hoses with a jet on the end, the failure rate is pretty high, and it is noisy and a bit gimmicky. I’m not a fan of this business model or this product.

  86. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 2:32 pm

    Hi Paulette

    I toured the Cal spa factory last January in anticipation of getting them into my recommended brand list… there were too many issues…

    – The shell was nothing special and after all the marketing Hype I really expected it to be a great shell but it was just a mid-end shell with these thin little strips of metal in them πŸ™‚ were not talking angle iron like their picture depict it was more like the edging used on drywall :-0
    – It was a smallish facility with an insane number of skews and options, as soon as I saw the list of spas and options I know the quality control was gonna be a shit show they really need to get back to basics and build one or 2 lines of spas. as expected when the tour ended I walked around the test area and the number of spas tagged with issues was insane…
    – They use good parts on some lines and unknown parts on others and they use a cheap insulation system that you can then upgrade to full foam…
    – Then the owner drove up in his $250k Bentley πŸ™‚

    I cant say in their current state they would be a great tub… But the funny part is all their problems were glaringly obvious and relatively easy to fix… If the right person walked in there and flipped the place upside down they could be building great stuff in a season but for now, they linger outside of my recommended brands.

  87. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 1:43 pm

    Hi Kayla

    I always say a great dealer with a mid-grade product is better than a crap dealer with a great product πŸ™‚ that is never truer than the goofy lines like Hot Springs that are full of proprietary parts! I’m not a fan of the brand but if the dealer has had the line for a long time they know the nuances, you will overpay because of the branding, and overpay for parts because of the proprietary nature but there is little else around you.

  88. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 1:34 pm

    Sweet reach out with feedback! happy hot tubbing

  89. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 1:34 pm

    Hi Nadine.

    Ratings depend on what aspect we look at…

    From a build quality and consistency (quality control) I rate Them Master, Artesian, Beachcomber.. big gap then Coast, Marquis
    From a Therapy massage standpoint, I rate them
    From a cost-effective standpoint (bang for the buck) Master, Coast, Artesian, Marquis, beachcomber.

    With beachcomber, I don’t like the Hybrid but you can order them without it (they call it Leep) they list leap as less efficient but that’s just self-serving questionable marketing to convince you to buy hybrid πŸ™‚

  90. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 1:23 pm

    Hey John

    not up on that area but I would think somewhere in the 8k-9K range?

  91. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 1:22 pm

    I like both here is my take…

    first off more pumps do not mean wore water flow
    They both have virtually the same main therapy seat and flow the same amount of water but there are more jets in the LSX seat so lower pressure per jet.
    the abs pan is available on both spas and really here nor there as far as I’m concerned
    Quietflow I’m, not a fan of, I like the hi flow systems a lot better you can filter way more water, and don’t have to be as picky about filter maintenance.
    The masterpur is a UV system, its one of the better systems out there but the truth that no hot tub manufacturers want you to know is that none of the onboard systems (salt, AOP, UV, ozone etc etc) are as good as the aftermarket stuff you add to the water like Spa Marvel enzyme or the mineral systems like Aquafinesse

  92. Reply
    admin May 10, 2019 at 1:10 pm

    Hey Nadine πŸ™‚

    Sorry The Dynasty is a random πŸ™‚ they copied the twilight and it performs well but it is not very well built but its the only other tub that has the crazy high flow therapy jets seating with the flow control like the twilight.

    The number of jets does not mean much but the size does matter in the hot tub world. the little jets are $10 each and don’t flow much water so a scam is to put loads of them in a tub so the number looks good πŸ™‚ the Hi-flow therapy massage jets can run to $50 each and require flow control plumbing (diverters) and offer a lot better massage, the twilight has more of these jets than any other tub i have ever seen.

  93. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 8:35 pm

    It is what it is, cheap price dodgy quality

  94. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 8:33 pm

    Shit, what a mess. it’s like they threw darts at a board and picked lines based on that!

    All Season Spas carries Sundance, Jacuzzi, and Nordic

    Sundance and Jacuzzi are owned by the same big corporate equity investment company that does great branding and marketing but build mid grade spas with proprietary parts stay away… then they carry Nordic an entry-level brand that is actually built better than either πŸ™‚

    2. Scioto Valley carries Bullfrog, Hot Spring, and Viking

    Bullfrog is good the only thing that keeps them out of my top five is the cheap ass ABS plastic shell… Hot springs are just like the Jacuzzi (see above) not recommended… and Viking is an inexpensive middle of the road line better than the big branded bullshit lines for sure but not in my top 10

    Rainbow Hot Tubs carries Hydropool, Dreammaker, and Passion.

    These meatheads are all over the place too… Hydropool is owned by the same ass hats that own Jacuzzi and Sundance and Hydropool, same shit different smell and Passion is a European line from a buddy of mine that I initiated into this industry 20 years ago, Dolf is a nice boy but I wouldn’t buy a tub from him πŸ™‚ then this crazy little guy out of Grimsby Ontario (my home town) who build mid grade spas under the sunrise banner and great rotomoulded spas under the dreamaker banner…

  95. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 8:21 pm

    Clackman’s does Marquis it’s your best local buy.

  96. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 8:18 pm

    South seas is Artesians low end good build and on par for sure.

  97. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 8:16 pm

    Dude its a shIt show and even a diligent intelligent researcher does not stand a chance, it would take years of research to sort out the reality of the various issues… It’s why I started this site, it pissed me off so much all the pseudo-science, half-truths and marketing spin that dominate our buying decisions.

    Jacuzzi is owned by a big equity investment corp that specializes in marketing, they are buying up loads of goofy brands with good stories because they are a great marketing group, but they build mid grade spas full of proprietary parts, and fancy advertising… In my opinion, it’s overpriced over marketed mid grade spas sold at twice what they are really worth.

    World of spas in Guelph does Artesian and Premium wholesale in Kitchener does Master, premium is one of the biggest dealers in Canada so their prices will be a lot better and I know them they are a good bunch.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6

  98. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 8:03 pm

    LMFAO πŸ™‚ I would obviously carry at the least any of the 5 top brands I recommend πŸ™‚ some peoples kids πŸ™‚

    let me know shoot me a video!

  99. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 7:58 pm

    OMG Clarity for sure… check this out:

    and since that video came out I have had loads of dynasty owners saying the same thing check out the comments in the youtube video…

  100. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 7:57 pm

    Hey Kyle.

    The Clarity is the best build, and they should be able to get you the entire master line up…

    The Hydropool and CSC i would not touch.

    Bluewater Pools & Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2541 Dougall Ave, Windsor, ON N8X 1T5
    bluewaterpools.ca
    +1 519-969-8561
    4.3View in Google Maps

  101. Reply
    admin May 7, 2019 at 7:53 pm

    Hey, Nadine.

    It’s funny what dealers say πŸ™‚ he bashes the coast for a fiberglass shell but the Marquis is a fiberglass shell πŸ™‚ fiberglass is a bitch because it is high VOC and to do it in most US states it needs a ton of expensive environmental equipment to use it which adds to the cost of making the shell. So what he is saying really is bullfrog is doing an ABS plastic shell because they don’t want to pay the high cost of the environmental reclamation gear needed to do a fiberglass shell πŸ™‚

    Coast is a funny group they build great spas and build them the right way but are plagued by quality control issues… It’s hit and miss there are some lemons out of that factory and frankly, Marquis is in the exact same boat in my ratings… They both need to stop trying to be the flashiest and focus on getting their house in order and producing consistent products.

    The twilights will beat all the others for raw performance and they have consistent reliable QC its worth a look.

    My list for build quality and consistency Master, Artesian, Beachcomber (big space) coast, Marquis, Bullfrog

    My list for performance goes Twilight(master), Dynasty (crap QC and build), artesian, Marquis, bullfrog… blah blah blah

    You need to weigh your priorities and you risk adversity…

  102. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 7:06 pm

    man, there was a guy there but the hurricane wrecked him πŸ™

    I’m gonna reach out and see what I can find for ya I will email you

  103. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 7:04 pm

    Dude, I’m torn… On paper, they do the main things right, but I spoke with owners and past dealers that say the quality control is not great, I invited the factory to fly me in and see the factory and verify that they are improving QC but they never took the plunge. I’ve toured dozens of factories but I can only go with what I have seen first hand, the problem is anyone can make it look good on paper but when I see a factory I can tell right away if they are doing it right, I refuse to outright support a group on their claims, this world is full of bullshit and I need t put my eyes on it before I can fully get behind it so they remain in limbo….

    No one likes me man… Because the norm is to just pay money and get the ranking and I don’t do that… you absolutely can not buy my review so when a guy on the edge of my top 10 does not jump at the chance to be reviewed by the one guy that influences a billion dollars in hot tub sales you got to pause and wonder why… I call it like I see it man, and they just have not stepped up to validate the corrections to a history of having QC issues…

  104. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 6:56 pm

    man sorry Alec, I don’t know the brand

  105. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 6:55 pm

    Hey Mike, not sure of the long history or the European history (it’s different on that side of the pond)

  106. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 6:54 pm

    They are owned by a big equity investment group that is buying up hot tub companies, they are great at marketing, branding and making a profit but frankly build mid grade spas with loads of proprietary parts and mid-grade production techniques… Overpriced, mid-grade spas with nice marketing is the nicest way to put it… Meathead corporate money grubbing dogs would be a bad way to put it so I won’t say that.
    πŸ˜‰

  107. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 6:49 pm

    Accent Spa
    1112 Court St
    Medford, OR. 97501 US

    Telephone: 541-664-7727
    Categories: Artesian Elite, Garden Spas, Island Spas, Service and Repair, South Seas Spas, TidalFit

  108. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 6:34 pm

    Dude for sure an awesome dealer with a mid-grade product is better than a shit dealer with a great product, especially in your area… Some areas have loads of independent service guy which changes the game but not your area πŸ™‚

    Yer asking a lot of work for a free service so buy me a coffee πŸ™‚ http://hottubuniversity.com/funding/

    Master Spa – Dealer in Saint Louis Park – My number one. They hit all the main four things this is the shit that costs money and is fundamental, they have a great range of lines and the twilight spa line IMHO is the best therapy massage spa out there. They also have a robust customer direct support structure and use a good reliable easily sourced OEM parts list

    Coast – Dealer in Hastings, I like the brand on paper, they come in at number 4 or 5 in my top 10 but they are plagued by quality control issues… Also, goofy shapes and sloped surfaces will cost you a fortune for covers down the road and make cover handling harder.

    Artesian – Dealer in Lakeville – My number two… They don’t do anything that hits the therapy massage level of the twilights and they have zero factory direct support which makes it a very dealer-centric line.. Make sure the dealer is solid dude… There is no fallback…

    Cal Spa – Dealer in Plymouth – They rank somewhere in the 5-10 mark, I toured the factory in Jan last year with hopes of ranking them high but it was a bit of a mess. The steel re-enforced shell is a joke, the “steel” is a thin angle of metal so thin it makes very little difference, it’s basically a mid-end cradle supported shell. They have a mess of random lines that is too broad and with too many options and that makes production a mess. Also, the tags from the line with rejects were epic… Some spas have god parts some not they could be a player again but they need to get a focus and choose a track and streamline the production.

    Hot Spring – Dealer in Plymouth – Great marketing, spin, and advertising, mid-grade quality and plagued with high failure rate proprietary parts, in my opinion, this is the recipes that wrecked the appliance industry and is wrecking this one if it is allowed to continue. They build a thin shell and support it with high-density foam that makes it almost impossible (or at least highly expensive)

    Arctic – Dealer in Chanhassen Same as above but with less skill πŸ™‚ its a mess of pseudoscience, and Chinese parts with fancy brochures… I dislike it a lot because for christ sake at least get one of the two things right… Be a slimeball manufacturer with great marketing or a great spa builder with crap marketing but the middle ground is just shit.

  109. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 5:49 pm

    Wow, this Sask market is busy as hell! and one the markets I can help you directly In, I tend to sell a fair few tubs there because there are crap option locally and I have a few good service guys around there.

    I’m gonna try and be unbiased then try to sell you a tub which, I must admit is a challenge πŸ™‚ but honest to Dog ill sacrifice the opportunity to make money to give you good advice (GOD I hate my morality sometimes ARGHHHH)

    So beachcomber Caldera guy is a shit… The beachcombers have no margin in them, the factory is bat shit crazy and charges stupid money πŸ™‚ the Caldera, on the other hand, is all the badness! proprietary parts, goofy build, fancy marketing, and branding and way overpriced as well but at least it has a margin… That’s why they are pushing you that way, the Beachcomber is way better…

    The next group with the Bullfrog, Coast, and Hot Spring guys. The Hot springs are the same company as the Caldera… Corporate equity investment sharks shilling site as Shinola… the Coast and Bullfrog are better buys for sure, the bullfrog performance wont hit the coast but the quality control is better…

  110. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 5:26 pm

    Wow, great feedback and I agree… The Bullfrog while good for the build is way overhyped on the whole performance thing and is a bit of a limp dick. The Sundance, Hot springs are the bad end of the world… corporate bullshit with goofy parts, loads of hype, decent performance and mid grade build and you can pay twice what its really worth for the pleasure.

    but dude… Fort Wayne is the factory for Master πŸ™‚ that’s why you don’t hear about them but also why you can go there and buy seconds, end of lines and blems… shit dude go wet test the twilight ill pm you a guy at the factory that can help you.

    and while I’m with you I hate big shit show star branding Michael actually worked with them for years helping to develop their swim trainers for pro athletes its more of a long-standing friendship than an outright branding bullshit scenario, I met Michael a few times he is a super good dude working to make good things happen in so many areas.

  111. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 5:17 pm

    Hi Amy

    The test strips are accurate but reading them is a trick πŸ™‚ (BTW I have an app coming for that soon πŸ™‚

    the trick, for now, is to slide the strip up and down the chart, you will get a feeling that its in the right area… the problem BTW is you… yes sorry i know blame the woman but your rod, cone count is skewed int he wrong way and while contrast is good for you color is not πŸ™‚

    Get this shit… it works and is reliable, cheap, keeps your water in balance and reduces you chem levels to mad low numbers and it helps support me πŸ™‚ and if you hate it Il refund it.

  112. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 5:03 pm

    Hey John

    I’m with you on the Nordic, the colors are crap because they don’t pay for virgin material, I get it’s more environmentally sound and that counts but they look like rechewed bubble gum. The Getaway hot tub line is like Nordic but done to a much higher standard from both looks, structure, and insulation.

    Saratoga is an unknown, I’m getting more and more traction in the area I suppose I’ll have to reach out and have a conversation… Performance wise you can tell they are middle of the road but so is the Nordic and Getaway, and that’s ok.. the reality is most of the population deas not need a therapeutic massage spa πŸ™‚

    Check out the getaway here: Factory Direct sales does Master in Cheshire and Factory Direct Hot Tubs Artesian in Branford… I don’t know why they all call themselves factory direct because they are just regular dealers but it is what it is πŸ™‚

  113. Reply
    admin May 6, 2019 at 4:46 pm

    So the best local option is definitely Pelican Pool & Ski Center they carry Coast and Artesian. The latter being the better of the two but both in my top 5. Artesian m=beats them because their consistent and Coast tends to have some QC issues from what I have seen.

    My only known goto is on the island, they rock and have my current number one ranked product and good backup, not sure if they service your area so hit them up and ask.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110 Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza, Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727

  114. Reply
    admin May 5, 2019 at 9:09 am

    Thermospas would not be on my list, they are what they are, middle of the road build and performance.

    the best options around you would be Pelican Pool & Ski Center in Whitehouse who do Coast and Artesian (Artesian is in my top 2 Coast around number 4-5) or National Pools & Spas in Hillsborough Township do Marquis (tied with Coast) or Master spas sold by the Henry boys north of Philly, i know these guys personally and they do a great job.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and review the business to ensure a good level of care

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry

  115. Reply
    admin May 5, 2019 at 9:02 am

    Hi Kelsey

    The Bullfrog for sure is the better of the 2 lines. The only downside tot he bullfrog is the ABS shell the Viking is just middle of the road.

  116. Reply
    admin May 5, 2019 at 8:57 am

    Hey John

    I really can’t find anything about how they are built.

    They are a small regional guy that pops up every once in a while and there is just not much info available.

    From what I do see it going to be pretty mid-end performance wise, there are no crazy high-end therapy massage spas, the little things like the pop out neck jets are hilarious, I haven’t seen them in use for a long time, they are really low flow and aren’t going to do anything for neck massage. as for build quality, its anyone’s guess but… In all the time I have been doing spas the small regional guys have never been a good option, the reality is in this industry you need to do a lot of volumes to afford to innovate or even to afford to adopt innovation when it comes down the pipe, typically these guys build middle of the road stuff with a lot of older tech.

  117. Reply
    admin May 5, 2019 at 8:46 am

    Hot Springs is part of the Watkins group and I am not a fan at all.

    There are 2 good business models for a manufacturer to make a profit in this game. And the reality is in this day and age the best profit model is to make a mid-grade spa using lots of proprietary parts and wrap it all up in loads of branding, marketing, advertising, and spin. In my opinion, that’s where hot springs group is at, the spas are ok but certainly not as well built or as high performance as a lot of the spas out there, but because of the slick marketing, they are sold as top of the line and have crazy high prices… While this is great for corporate profits the best thing for the end user is to have a spa with the better quality OEM parts better build and better performance from a company that is a great hot tub builder instead of a great marketing company

    Washington pools in Sarni does marquis that would be better and you have 2 service companies in Chatham so you will be good for support as long as you stay with good OEM parts.

    The best though by far would be the Master stuff at Bluewater pools in Windsor. I know these guys and they do a great job.

    Bluewater Pools & Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2541 Dougall Ave, Windsor, ON N8X 1T5
    bluewaterpools.ca
    +1 519-969-8561
    4.3View in Google Maps

  118. Reply
    admin May 5, 2019 at 8:34 am

    Shit Don that’s a tough one. allot of that is down to how much the money means to you.

    Twilight is already an insane tub the pros as I see it are:

    – the main seat can flow more water because you can diver the entire 6 hp pump tot he main seat.
    – More pump does not mean more water flow the bigger he pumps the better the efficiency.
    – Roomy and wide open, so if you got lots of peeps the footwell is big enough for all the legs.
    – with the big footwell, you can sit in it and use the monster jets on yer lower back πŸ™‚

    LXS

    – Same main therapy seat and 3.5″ neck jets
    – the leg jets on the lounger are sweet.
    – comes with a few standard upgrades over the twilight like the base.
    – super lovely looking spa. and with he gator back seat even though they are not as good for therapeutic massage as the big high flow seat they feel –
    – nice and are good for loosening u before getting in the main seat.

    I can decide, personally im happy with the Twilight I use but again for me it is all about the massage…

  119. Reply
    admin May 4, 2019 at 9:06 am

    Sorry dude I don’t know the tub!

    But in my experience you really can’t sell a good tub for this price, I am going to assume there are a lot fo cut corners to get to market for this number.

    I would be wary a good used spa or refurb might be a better bet.

  120. Reply
    admin May 4, 2019 at 9:02 am

    Hey Alex

    No tubs get airlocks anymore, they all have auto bleeders on the pumps. someone doesn’t know what they are talking about. there were flow issues with a filter style they used with circ pumps a few years back but that fix was fast and easy. Besides, don’t buy circulation pumps and any brand, they are crap and fail all the time.

    Hot Tubs Inc in Owings, MD sells Master, Hot Tubs of Rockville sells Artesian, and Hot Tubs & Pool Tables Outlet in Laurel sells Marquis.

    I rate the Artesian and the Master above the Marquis because of quality control and rank the Master above the Artesian because of their customer direct support line, the other two won’t talk with customers directly but none will be nightmare spas… the top performance units, if you want massage, will the Twilights, then the LSX closely followed by the Elites.

    I don’t know the last two dealers but I do know Kevin and his Daughter Sam at Hot Tubs Inc, they run a good business.

  121. Reply
    admin May 4, 2019 at 8:49 am

    Hey Brian

    Build wise you can fault them, they do all the right things and have good quality control but it’s not a lot of hot tub for the money… Beachcomber is just so overpriced a tub with this building standard should go for right around $7k

    Your electrical should be around $800 tax around $500 so it looks like yer paying around $8700 for a single pump 23 jet small tub with hardly any massage value!

    Man in this price point you got to be careful because a lot of tubs with a higher spec will be junk, but look at a Nordic or a Getaway hot tub you can get a 2 pump 40 jets 87×87 unit with a good build and good insulation and parts.

    So yes, its a well-built tub but its not a good deal.

  122. Reply
    admin May 3, 2019 at 11:53 am

    man there all middle of the road around you.

    I suppose the Cal spa from Escape Now Spas in Whitefish, but make sure its a model with Balboa controls and order the full foam upgrade.

  123. Reply
    admin May 3, 2019 at 11:50 am

    check out the garden spas here:
    Spas Direct Of Texas
    Approved: Artesian, South Seas, Garden
    Not Approved: Jacuzzi

  124. Reply
    admin May 3, 2019 at 11:49 am

    tough call,

    The Artesian is a far better product for sure and the parts are easy to source.

    depends on your support requirements.

  125. Reply
    admin May 3, 2019 at 9:11 am

    Hey Dave

    I don’t really look at pricing too much, there are vast differences depending on areas, things like shipping costs, and property values can really effect retail pricing, also a dealers level of service adds tot he cost.

    I have heard of guys getting demos sub 10k but I would think new in the wrapper anything under 11k would be good, what are you getting quoted?

  126. Reply
    admin May 3, 2019 at 9:06 am

    Hey Jake!

    I sell a lot of spas direct into that market, I have a few service partners there and I’m in Halifax πŸ™‚

    Not sure if Apex uses balboa but if it does not then don’t buy it.

    Don’t bother with the titanium heater… when a heater fails its usually not really the heater its the seat under the seal that corrodes and starts leaning and frankly with decent water chemistry they last for 5-7 years easily and cost $80 for the part πŸ™‚

  127. Reply
    admin May 3, 2019 at 9:03 am

    I just watched the Video, they do some stuff well but there a couple of points that don’t match up… It’s a 2018 video but clearly shot a decade or so ago, that Balboa aluminum pack is an old style for sure and who would be pulling a Blue spa πŸ™‚ that was a fad color 10-15 years ago.

    The shell is an unknown, I like that they use vinyl ester resin, and that they hand roll, but they do not claim it is self-supporting which requires a lot of fo layers and they do use cradle supports you can see them in several places, they also claim to re-enforce with steel and use high-density foam… both gimmicks that guys use as re-enforcement on thinner shells.

    As for the high-density foam, this is a big red flag. covering the plumbing in this shit is bad. if you ever have a leak its a nightmare to fix, you really want a foam that does not harden up, it’s more expensive but way better.

    From a performance standpoint its all pretty mid-grade, lots of cheap low flow jets and almost no high flow therapy massage jets or flow control.

    From everything I see I’m going to expect it to be a mid-priced to a low priced spa?

  128. Reply
    admin May 3, 2019 at 8:40 am

    First off the shell designs made me smile, there are right out of the 80’s all the sharp angles and terrible use of space πŸ™‚ Water environments are all about space, and the footwells on most of the models make them no good for anything over 2 or 3 people.

    Jetting wise again this is right out fo the 80’s all the cheap low flow jets so you can quote mad numbers of jets! more is better!!!! and lots of little pumps, again to make it sound impressive. the reality is fewer pumps are better, and for massage, the big expensive hi flow therapy jets are better than the little low flow bullet jets… Hell, 118 $10 jets is just over a grand where 40 of the high flow therapy jets with a big foot jet system and diverters could be $2k…

    Finally, the insulation, forget it these radiant barriers were basically banned in the 80’s in regulated industries, now in this unregulated industry they are the miracle insulator… laughable cheap outdated… https://hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

    Orlando is like a lot fo the big population centers now, hardly any retailers and loads of independent guys specializing in fixing hot tubs… its a good thing for the end user, you can buy direct now and as long as its a good build and readily available OEM parts you can have a good experience using local service techs. try these guys they do a lot in Orlando and I’m sure can hook you up.

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps

  129. Reply
    admin May 2, 2019 at 3:17 pm

    Man, that sucks πŸ™

    I’m not a fan of the brand or mass merchants, all the spas form the big box stores suck, you should see the video I just shot on the Canadian spa from Home Depot… Made in China cheap crap literally falling apart after 3 weeks.

    Return it, it’s crap. Hit me up ill get you sorted with a good spa.

  130. Reply
    admin May 2, 2019 at 3:13 pm

    Hey James

    Of the 4 only the Bullfrog would I consider seriously. it’s just out of my top 5 and only because of the ABS plastic cradle supported shell.

    The other three are great marketing companies building mid grade spas with fancy branding and marketing and loads of mid-grade proprietary parts, dodgy insulation and mid-grade fabrication, in my opinion, those three are literally at the bottom of my ratings this article describes them best: https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/consumer-canada-1.5115875

  131. Reply
    admin May 2, 2019 at 3:07 pm

    Hey Dallas

    You have a couple of the dodgy big marketing guys like Jacuzzi, Sundance, and Hot springs they are part of these two big equity investment companies that are buying up hot tub manufacturers and I’m, not a fan, their business model is to build what I consider mid grade spas and use lots of proprietary parts so they own you forever, they spend way too much on the old school bullshit marketing, branding, and advertising and sell at way over value prices…

    from a build standpoint and quality control, the Beachcomber would be a good spa but they do not build anything in the high-end performance spas do if yer looking for that then Coast spas sold at Twilight is a good option.

    On the Mainland fraser valley does Master best of both, good quality control like the Beachcomber and they do some high-performance models with the Twilight and MPL lines, they likely have a service guy near there.

  132. Reply
    admin May 2, 2019 at 3:00 pm

    Hi Alexandria (I love that name it sounds so mysterious)

    I saw the Passion spas in Vegas, lots of goofy parts and nothing that really impressed me. High-density foam is a bad option, especially when sprayed on the shell. they do it because the shell is not great so the foam hardens and supports the shell but if you ever have a leak yer screwed… it’s a cheap way to build a tub. I would not have it on my short list

    Nature 2 is good it’s an ion system I like it but the claims are wackadoodle πŸ™‚ it will reduce chems by 30% range. use it with spa marvel and a tiny bit of chlorine and you can go damn near a year without a water change and have easy to manage water and super low chem…

    Two good option for you in Fort Collins… High country pools do Nordic, more basic spas but much better build quality, then Aqua Spas In greenly, been around for 20+ years big operation and top brands.

  133. Reply
    admin May 2, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    Hey Ericke

    The Marquis is a good spa too but both the Artesian and the Master have the exact same build and parts but both demonstrate a much higher quality control.

    The Marquis salesman is not being truthful with you on a few things, Artesian has the same parts as Marquis and Master.. same control and heating system, jets, insualtion etc the funny thing is of the three Marquis just moved to proprietary parts on the Vector line, see the review video here, and of the three they are the only ones I have seen with systemic quality control issues. what dealer was it?

    Performance wise the TS has four of the 3.5″ neck jets the epic has 2 of the little 1.5″ low flow jets, no real neck jets system at all and the twilight has way more fo the big expensive 5″ high flow therapy jets and the big 10″ jets in the floor… The TS is gonna blow it away performance wise… wet test them, you will see what I mean.

    Finally, the Epic is a screwy layout… where do your feet go in the seat below the lounger? and the lounger itself looks tiny as does the footwell…

    I’m also really put off when a sales guy says blatantly untruthful things about his competitors… Point out their faults and disadvantages sure, but making shit up is just the refuge of the incompetent.

    Now all three are in my top five brands so likely none will be a nightmare scenario the one thing that puts Master on top of all of them other than the outright performance on the TS is they are the only one of the three to have a good robust factory direct support structure… try calling all three only Master will help you… the other two will refer you to the dealer, and the quality control on the Marquis is meh, the one I got was a mess…

  134. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 5:27 pm

    Id return it and run the fuck away. In my opinion, these meatheads are at the bottom of the rung. mid grade spas full of proprietary parts, massive branding and advertising budgets with loads of spin.

    go see these guys

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.4View in Google Maps

  135. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 5:16 pm

    Hi Sarah

    It’s a crazy world we live in lies lies lies! I hate it slick marketing is the norm, half-truths and spin and bullshit reign supreme! Our national media CBC just did an article about it… It’s a shit show, and in the states, it’s even worse! https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/consumer-canada-1.5115875

    I got a great guy in Chattanooga I know him, drank with him, laughed with him, he is sold and will take care of you and if you ever need anything come to me!

    Swim Spa International
    Micheal Phelps
    John flaningan Ceo
    4235062913
    swimspainternational@gmail.com
    Remove
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    6228 Airpark Dr Suite B, Chattanooga, TN 37421
    chattanooga.swimspas.us
    +1 423-355-8930
    5.0View in Google Maps

  136. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 5:10 pm

    Hey Marc

    Cal is better than Jacuzzi, but ignore the bullshit about their shell, I was there in the factory the “steel” is like paper thin πŸ™‚ its basically a standard cradle supported shell. and you got to order the full foam upgrade and make sure its Balboa controls they use waterways on their lower end lines… Jacuzzi, in my opinion, is mid grade overpriced over marketed over branded, over advertised… The best thing about that line is the brochure πŸ™‚

    Davison Spas in Driggs carries Artesian, a way better option for you.

  137. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 4:59 pm

    There are a few ways to up the R-value. BTW One of the biggest limitations of an infrared camera is the fact that it cannot accurately capture an image through glass, or any other shiny object. its why you do not get good results with actual heat loss with mylar. https://www.thermalcameras.guide/infrared-camera-limitations/

    so you can buy spray foam, but get open-celled foam and keep the motors free of foam so they can breathe.

    or you can get hefty garbage bags and take fiberglass pink or Rockwool insulation battons and wrap them in the garbage bags (make sure you don’t compress the battons then tuck them around the inside of the skirt again amking sure you ahve breathing room around the motors.

  138. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 4:27 pm

    Hi Kim

    In your area You have Hydropool and Jacuzzi, both owned by the same slick marketing company and both, in my opinion, putting out overpriced mid-grade products using dodgy proprietary parts, mid-grade insulation and fabrication systems and spending way too much on brand awareness, marketing, adverting all designed to justify over-inflated retail prices… CBC just did a great article about this issue: https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/consumer-canada-1.5115875

    You do however have a great local service company that we have registered with the site that can take great care of you if you stick with a good brand with good OEM parts.

    The nearest local guys are:

    For great build quality, the Beachcomber Leap series is a well made hot tub, but they don’t do any high-performance massage spas, all very basic middle of the road performance models. Beachcomber Hot Tubs 2862 Boul Industriel, Laval, QC H7L 3S2 http://www.beachcomberhottubs.com 450-965-6680

    For good build quality and parts, the Coast spas also offer a better performance level but the quality control is not as good as the BC they are sold at CK Spas 214 Rue Poirier, Saint-Eustache, QC J7R 6B1 http://www.ckspas.com 514-701-4950

    I’m afraid that’s it, none of my top 5 guys around you, but I do sell a lot of spas direct in that market as a result, Im in eastern Canada, I’ll email you some details.

  139. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 3:00 pm

    Hey Brian

    I’m not a fan of this brand. In my opinion, they are one of the companies that spend way too much on Brand awareness, marketing, spin, and advertising and not enough on the build… In my mind, there is zero justification for the price it should be a mid-priced spa I mean let’s look at the reality of the build. The only good thing is the shell and the base, and bases are not a big factor. They fail my test on tall the other critical points… its full of proprietary parts, very little insulation certainly not enough R-value to meet code for a house in Canada. check out the review

    even performance wise its middle of the road.

    you have 2 better options, the first is Okanagan Home Center I can’t speak for the reliability of the dealer but the Artesians are way better from a build standpoint and way better parts.

    Then you have one of the most awarded pool companies in the west that sell the H2X and Phelps which are built as good as the Artesians but blow them away for performance…

    Valley Pool & Spa
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Approved brands: Master, H2X, MPL, Twilight, Phelps swim spas

    I spent 3 days with the wonderful folks from valley Pool and spa. These guys are in a class of their own and carry my goto brand Master.

    info@valleypoolandspa.com Sean, Sonya
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1659 Cary Rd, Kelowna, BC V1X 2C1
    http://www.valleypoolandspa.com
    +1 250-860-2266
    4.0View in Google Maps

  140. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 2:13 pm

    πŸ™‚ thanks dude, this week has been a bit mad, an article about me came out in the national news and I’m swamped πŸ™‚ https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/consumer-canada-1.5115875

    it is slightly above a healthy living and slightly below a Twilight in masters lines and somewhere around Island or Island elite from Artesian. from a performance standpoint. but I think the Quality control demonstrated by Artesian and Master put them ahead. And the factory direct support structure from master puts them ahead again.

  141. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 11:38 am

    I can’t find and artesian spa called the epic πŸ™ am I missing something?

  142. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 11:35 am

    enjoy dude and hit me up if you ever have any issues!

    also try the spa marvel man it’s amazing, way better than anything else

  143. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 11:34 am

    Hey Wayne.

    A lot of money for a foam tub with a vinyl liner πŸ˜‰

    I’ve worked on a few and sold them for a while.

    What I liked:
    easy to set up and move, but it’s still not portable enough for weekly or even monthly moves.

    What I didn’t like:

    – The parts are all proprietary, and way overpriced.
    – because it can only filter when it runs and when it runs it has to heat you are really limited to how often it can filter, with the low filtration rate you cant use any of the really good chem reduction things like aqua finesse or spa marvel so they have to run high chlorine or high bromine which you breathe in πŸ™
    – If you ever need to replace the liner its a frigging nightmare.
    – Working on them is a pain in the ass and requires you to drain them
    – No real jetting at all which for me makes it totally useless I love the massage jets.

  144. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 11:23 am

    Thanks, Scott, happy hot tubbing!

  145. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 11:12 am

    Hey Dave

    you have an Artesian and a Master dealer near you, they are my number one and number two brands. Both built well using an almost identical parts list.

    The Master edges it out in my opinion for two reasons. First, nothing out there that I have seen has a seat comparable to the main therapy seat in the Twilight and MPL tubs, it has so many of the 5″ high flow therapy jets and the neck jets are 3.5″ high flows as well… you also have the ability to divert any part of the main pump to the seat, it flows mad water… The top seat in the Artesian has some high flow some low flow and the neck jets are the little 1.5″ low flow jets πŸ™ Second is Master has a solid customer direct support line, Artesian does not.

    Now that being said we talking about the two brands I like the most so neither would be a disaster for you πŸ™‚

    I also know Ted Baily and Dallas down at Best Buy Pools and spas and they are solid dealers.

  146. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 11:01 am

    Parts are key and in areas like yours with so many service guys around as long as you buy a good brand yer fine.

    email me when you get closer ill see if I cant find you somthing

  147. Reply
    admin May 1, 2019 at 10:48 am

    I sent you an email, send me dims and a pic ill see what we can find

  148. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    Hi Sarah. its funny you tend to find that brand at companies that don’t specialize in hot tubs πŸ™‚ The marketing and branding make it easy to sell but its just not a great spa in my opinion and its way overpriced.

    Carolina spa company carries Coast likely the best brand in the immediate area.

  149. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:56 pm

    it’s pretty basic one pump tub but from a build standpoint, it should be good. You will want to order the full form upgrade I don’t believe that it is standard on that tub. But other than that it should be a pretty good tub Artesian makes good stuff

  150. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:54 pm

    they must have been running that Expo for a while because there are three independent hot tub service repair centers within 20 miles of you so service probably is not going to be an issue. there Is also an Artesian dealer at Bend Hearth & pool they’re a pretty good brand as well

  151. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:50 pm

    yeah but the foam is soft you can push a fische through it

  152. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:49 pm

    Hey Chris

    You just summed it up… From a build standpoint, the two tubs are equals but the Clarity is a lot more on the performance end.

    depends on you man remember you will have what you buy for decades and you can not add jets or pumps…

  153. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:46 pm

    Hey Declan

    Neither are bad tubs.

    But The shells are not the same and its what puts master ahead in my book.

    The Bullfrog uses an ABS cradle supported shell, the Master uses a hand-rolled self-supporting fiberglass shell that’s a lot more expensive to build and a lot stronger… https://youtu.be/_T9DY6am_E0

  154. Reply
    Christopher James Wheatley April 30, 2019 at 8:42 pm

    Hey David

    Yeah, I’m not a fan of jacuzzi, great marketing but in my opinion mid grande build and performance and a bad list of proprietary parts

    unless you are installing in a wet area then the standard base will be fine, bases were really a bit of a sidetrack issue back a few years ago so now everyone offers the ABS bottom pan, if its a concern or if the area is always damp then add it if not don’t sweat it won’t be a concern in the real world. critters are not getting in through the bottom its sitting on concrete which is way better than any base on any hot tub.

  155. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:36 pm

    Hi Ivan

    They are both very different spas.

    first off more pumps is a bit of a gimmick. The Hl is all custom molded seats and the cayman is wide open seating… they appeal to different customers but I know taller people love the molded seats. performance wise they both have a similar number of the expensive high flow therapy jets and they are both running 1.5″ neck jets. not massive differences on either. I do not like that old school foot dome on the Cayman, they really need to redo that mold, those things are a pain in the ass you are always tripping on them and they bleed heat out the bottom of the tub through conduction, you don’t see them much anymore most guys have taken all the plumbing out from under the floor… The other difference is support, Master who makes the HL has a good customer direct support line, Artesian does not so you need to really make sure the dealer is solid.. make sure they have carried the line for a long time…

  156. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:30 pm

    the upgraded insulation for sure dude the ozone no… just use spa marvel or aqua finesse…

  157. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:29 pm

    LMAO

    sorry dude I’m losing the plot, the CBC did an article on me and I’m so busy… https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/consumer-canada-1.5115875

    Best I got for you is Tims pool and spas in mason they do Artesian,

    dude, there are literally 10 independant service guys around you… its wack you must have a regular run of event sales or something.

    the good side is you can buy anything from anyone that uses a good standard parts list and have great service…

  158. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:23 pm

    Hey James

    Man, I used to Ski at Horseshoe Valley when I was a kid πŸ™‚

    nothing right around you man but there is a good service guy in Barrie who services all brands.

    talk to my buddy Griffen Ryan down in north Toronto he likely has some stuff up there.

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  159. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:20 pm

    Hey sorry for the delay!

    I just don’t have any real good choices around you, Imm gonna dig a bit deeper and see what I can find.

  160. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:07 pm

    Hi Robert

    I don’t know man. goofy proprietary control system… it one of the few brands we refuse to service. sounds like a duff board but maybe just a main fuse?

  161. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 8:00 pm

    Hey Lisa

    Hydropool is a great marketing company but the build quality is middle of the road, Its a cradle supported shell and Mylar insulation… And there is no way it should be $18k…

  162. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 4:01 pm

    Hi David.

    Nope, not really… Its one of the many manufacturers that have been bought up by the spin and marking monsters… loads of hype, branding and questionable pseudoscience. its a mid-grade overprice hot tub full of proprietary parts in my honest opinion.

  163. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 3:59 pm

    Hi Neil

    What kind of idiot puts a speaker in a hot tub that cant get wet πŸ™‚

    They are what they are… A great marketing company building crap tubs with loads of bullshit branding and marketing… Unfortunately its the times we live in the branding and marketing and fake reviews πŸ™

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/consumer-canada-1.5115875

  164. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 3:24 pm

    Hi Aaron

    Don’t blame you. expos really are not anything special… Same prices as a local high volume dealer usually, but in your area, they have been going on for so long that there is now a good resource of independant service guys so buying local does not have many advantages… and in your area brick and mortar is so expensive that you pay through the nose for local retail…

    Artesian is good but you need a great dealer because the factory has zero support, Master is the same quality but has good customer direct factory support…

    Yeah looked at a strong in Vegas this year and its the same…

  165. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 3:18 pm

    Davison spa in Driggs sells Artesian

  166. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 3:14 pm

    My momma always said if you don’t have anything good to say don’t say anything at all πŸ™‚

    I don’t listen well…

    They are what they are… great branding, marketing, and advertising. their point of sale materials are tops and if you could bathe in the brochure it would be awesome but the reality is its an ok mid-grade build that is overpriced and full of proprietary parts, I would not have them on my short list.

    The best bet is Soakers that carries Artesian, and you also have a ridiculous number of independant service guys around you so I suspect there is a big event sale regularly there. it means you can buy any well-made brand with good OEM parts and have great service I literally have 10 service companies registered there… yer in the golden zone… hit me up if you need help.

    Chris@hottubuniversity.com

  167. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 3:08 pm

    Hey Mike…

    They are all dickheads πŸ™‚

    Nordics a good tub, the insulation is a little less than my tier one but not as bad as a lot of them, the Masters are also good spas.

    the Master dealer really quit selling Nordic because master got into roto molds and knocked off the best Nordic shells, and they save money by buying from one source and shipping together πŸ™‚ the reality is I like the Getaway a little better because the shell is thicker and the insulation is better but neither are going to be bad spas πŸ™‚

    They are probably using Ted beers in Daytona for service he is solid I know him, you won’t have service issues either way πŸ™‚

  168. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 3:03 pm

    Dude! are you the Eric Estrada from the tv show???

    Pelican Pool in Whitehouse carries Artesian and Coast, the Marquis is a good spa and in my top 5 but there are some quality control issues from what I have seen… The Artesian is in my top 2…

    Also, check out the Masters below but none of these will be a bad decision.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    dhenry1201@gmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 877-755-7727
    3.5View in Google Maps

  169. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    Hey Mike

    The two tubs are absolutely opposite ends of the performance standards but close in build quality and parts!

    Get her a good “verticle height adjuster” or booster seat πŸ™‚ and yes you can run them down a lot lower in water level.

    the nonly downside to the Nordic is the insualtion system, but man if yer going to a roto mold look at the Getaway hot tub… same as Nordic with better insulation…

  170. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 2:51 pm

    They are selling it because its a Jacuzzi πŸ™‚

    Proprietary parts, mid-grade build and overpriced.

    find something with good OEM parts

  171. Reply
    Christopher James Wheatley April 30, 2019 at 2:48 pm

    recreational concepts do Artesian and Patio pleasures who does Marquis for sure the best local is the Artesian but they have no direct customer support and I don’t know the dealer! Marquis is good on paper but they have slipped in my rankings, they do it all right on paper but seem to have some quality control issues, there are a lot of lemons out of that factory. Also worth checking out is The Master guys here:

    Master Spas of Southern WI
    2242 W Bluemound Road Suite A, Waukesha, WI, 53186
    Phone 414-607-8827
    Fax :414-607-8826
    Email kwhueff@gmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2242 W Bluemound Rd Suite A, Waukesha, WI 53186
    masterspaswi.com
    +1 414-607-8827
    4.7View in Google Maps

  172. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 2:07 pm

    Hey, James sorry for the delay this site is killing me!!! it was just supposed to be my place to yell at a bad industry…OMG, what the hell!!! Just got off the phone with another news media doing an interview.. apparently I’m a phenom πŸ™‚ who would have thought that honesty would be so fucking attractive!

    The South Seas is an Artesian, Its a good spa and better than any of the others you mention for sure. but the master dealer should be able to compete but check out the clarity or getaway.

    Next would be Bullfrog the rest would not be on my short list, fancy brands with mid grade proprietary parts and planned and obsolescence.

  173. Reply
    admin April 30, 2019 at 1:54 pm

    Hey Dallas

    My top 5 tubs are Artesian, Master, marquis, beachcomber, and Coast.

    The reason is simple they all at least do the 4 critical things…

    1. They hand roll self-supporting shells with a vinyl ester core: https://youtu.be/_T9DY6am_E0
    2. They use a top OEM parts list that is readily available: https://hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/
    3. They glue and clamp the plumbing lines to the jets
    4. They Fill the cavity with a top end Icynene foam for max R-value and easy access to plumbing issues.(some standard some for an upgrade)

    as far as I’m concerned this is the main things, and they are all the things that cost money πŸ™‚

    Most guys are building mid grade spas with loads spent on the branding, marketing, and bullshit all the while using a proprietary parts list to screw you for life on overpriced parts that you can’t get anywhere but through them.

    Of the 5 I rank them like this.

    1 – Master (See review here)
    They are by far the largest and oldest
    They have the best Factory direct customer care
    They make the top therapy massage tub
    Great QC
    2 – Artesian
    They do not have customer direct care, you need a good dealer because the factory won’t take your call.
    3 – Beachcomber (See Review here)

    They are low performance, they simply do not do any high-end therapy massage spas.
    they are overpriced, they need to have a lot more features and High performance jetting to justify their pricing
    Their Hybrid thing is old tech and bad, you cant reuse the motor waste heat, the equipment freezes in power outages quickly, and you pump the hot water outside of the insulation envelope.
    The sides are not removable!

    4 – Coast

    good performance but plagued by bad reviews for quality control.

    5 – Marquis (See review Here)

    They do not have customer direct care, you need a good dealer because the factory won’t take your call.
    The quality control is a little sketchy although they swear the one I got was an anomaly.

  174. Reply
    admin April 29, 2019 at 5:37 pm

    happy hot tubbing man and if you need anything let me know

  175. Reply
    admin April 28, 2019 at 11:34 am

    Hey Russ

    I don’t know the name, but I’m crap with remembering names πŸ™‚

    Buying from event sales was risky in the early days because of the lack of on the ground service guys but in markets like Pitsburg where they have been running events for a long time, there is a good network of independant service companies. Its funny people go to these events thinking that the price will be awesome but that they will sacrifice the service and support end and now in some markets its the opposite… the pricing isn’t really anything spectacualr, you can usually cut the same deal at a good high volume retailer but the service is usually pretty good.. again dpeending on the group running it, some have robust back ends whith good service management.

  176. Reply
    admin April 28, 2019 at 11:31 am

    Hey Russ

    Marquis for sure out fo that group. for the most part I believe Marquis put out a good product, I just think they have a few quality control issues which they have said they are focusing on, even the one I reviewed wasn’t a nightmare it just wasn’t a great example… but still fundamentally better than the new mega groups that are turning out mid grade scrap with fancy branding and overpriced retail with proprietary parts… Sundance was recently acquired by one of the two big equity investment groups that in my opinion are leading the industry down the same broken road that the appliance 9industry went down.

    The Master is built the same with the same great OEM parts but with much better QC and a more robust customer support network.

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    3.1View in Google Maps

  177. Reply
    admin April 28, 2019 at 9:06 am

    Hey Zach

    You have the usual suspects like Hot Springs and Arctic, high prices, loads of goofy proprietary parts and in my opinion, mid-grade spas wrapped in a lot of bullshit branding and expensive marketing.

    Then Dynasty… Man, the one I reviewed was a mess and since posting the review I have had a lot of people reporting really big quality control issues and really high failure rates read the comments at the bottom of the review pager…

    That leaves Bullfrog, all in all not a bad spa, I don’t buy into some of the claims and they use a cheaper plastic shell but definitely a step above the other two brands.

    Funnily enough, you are pretty close to me πŸ™‚ I don’t get many locals! this site ranks page one organically across the US and gets 100,000 buyers but its just now starting to rank in my local markets πŸ™‚

    I’ve got a pile of customer there and a local company that does service for us. great dealers are not about proximity, they are about knowledge, support, and communication and I rock at that…

    ill email you.

  178. Reply
    admin April 27, 2019 at 7:08 pm

    Hey Jim

    So with any system, you do the basic… balance the alkalinity up to the high end of OK
    then balance the PH if needed.

    The beauty of both these products and esp Spa Marvel is they stabilize Ph, something none of the onboard systems do.

    Then either add Aquafinesse every week or a bottle of spa marvel every 3 months.

    Add a sanitizer like chlorine or bromine I have to recommend you follow state or provincial guidelines so you litigious bastards don’t sue me πŸ™‚ personally I run mine at 0.5ppm and have zero issues but again follow the government outdated science…

    the filter cleaner you add to a bucket as per the instructions and soak the filters then rinse them and put then m back in the tub

  179. Reply
    admin April 27, 2019 at 7:03 pm

    lol heard that before πŸ™‚

    Any idiot who designs a tub for the best case scenario is dumb. I’ve serviced many a leaky beachcomber.

    Cant, you fish through the little holes or drill a new one?

  180. Reply
    admin April 27, 2019 at 7:02 pm

    No worries man let me know how you make out

  181. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    Dude I get it.

    All the bullshit drove me so crazy I started this site never expected it to take off like this though! holy crap I get like 100,000 people a year here now…

    Man locally the best by far is the Artesian… go see Soakers, tell them Chris sent you πŸ™‚ The bullfrog would be a decent second but a few steps down for sure… not a fan of Sundance…

  182. Reply
    admin March 1, 2019 at 12:07 pm

    Hi Brett

    I know man the bullshit marketing from these asshats selling shitty mid grade spas with beautiful marketing, spin and branding bullshit does my head in… its almost as bad as the appliance industry ffs.

    So the Bullfrog is pretty good the biggest issue I have is the shell, these cheap ABS plastic shells were all the rage back 20 years ago but they just are not strong enough, they need pedestal supports to keep them from falling apart, I really like a good hand rolled fiberglass self-supporting shell. There is also a ton of bullshit pseudoscience around that tub and the stupid jet packs are gimmicky and the claims of better flow rates because of less plumbing again is highly questionable… read this:

    The only local brand I would consider is the Artesian at Soakers, 6905 State St, Midvale, UT 84047

    But there is another option in your area. Within 20 miles of you, I have literally 10 different independant service companies that just fix hot tubs. It must be an expensive area to do business in because I can tell from the lack of retailers and the crazy number of service companies that most people are not buying local… In areas like this you can get better pricing from buying out of the area and as long as you have a good information and communication person you can have a better service levels that the retailers even, these independant guys kick ass at fixing spas but you got to stay away from the shitty brands with all the goofy proprietary parts.

  183. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    They are all built to the same standard what really changes is the performance.

  184. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 2:20 pm

    Danielle run the hell away! not a fan at all, and since I posted my review video I heard some horror stories from other customers.

    Check out the video review and the comments below it.

  185. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 2:15 pm

    Dude Oskee wee wee!

    I’m a Hamilton boy πŸ™‚

    Jacuzzi is way down my list man, great marketing, spin, and advertising, but full of proprietary parts, way overpriced for what they are…

    Pinnacle im not a fan of, the Sunrise is the best of those but again not in my top ten

    there is a massive dealer in Kitchener. They carry one of my top brands and they service your area and I know them.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.7View in Google Maps

  186. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 2:00 pm

    glad to help dude.

  187. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    Im a big fan of the H2X swim spa, its the residential version of the Phelps.. built well and flows a ton of water.

  188. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 1:58 pm

    I don’t know the group sorry man. Ithe nearest master guy is the Henry boys, good lot and I know they service your area hit them up.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    dhenry1201@gmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 877-755-7727
    3.5View in Google Maps

  189. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 1:52 pm

    Hi Kathy.

    One of the big things for me after the main five things is the depth… if you want to work out against the flow and do aerobics the depth is critical, getting into a 60″ deep swimmer makes so much difference.

    The H2X and Artesian are definitely miles above the Hydropool. Hydropool is good marketing, but mid-grade build quality IMHO… Mylar insulation, a cradle supported shell I would not have it on my short list.

  190. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 1:40 pm

    Hey Mick

    that expo has been going on for a long time there.

    One of the reasons i was happy to send you to the guy so far away is there are a lot of independent service guys around the area so service should not be an issue. You can always tell a market where the event sales have been happening for a long time because they are full of service guys πŸ™‚

  191. Reply
    admin April 26, 2019 at 1:37 pm

    Hi

    They are not a manufacturer, they are just a private brand the shell is cradle supported, the insulation is cheap and ineffective, parts are ok, build standard middle fo the road, it would not be on my short list.

    The only two brands there that are any good are the Artesian sold by Purewater in Napean and the Beachcomber in Orleans. That’s market is a mess. I actually ship a few thee every year because the pricing is high there and there are a lot of service guys on the ground.

  192. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 3:28 pm

    You already know the answer πŸ™‚

    Artesian beats Coast because it has better quality control, Coast has a lot of lemons come out f the factory.

    And yer right South seas is a lower performance party tub.

  193. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 3:24 pm

    Hey Dude

    Yer lucky it was an older Arctic the new ones are crap IMHO.

    Both Master and Artesian are top of my list for build quality literally number one and number two, the only reason that Master takes number one is they have customer direct support.

    BUT… the dove canyon is nowhere near the performance model the Twilight is. It literally has like six of the high flow jets they rest are inexpensive low flow jets and the neck jets are 1.5″ low flow vs, the twilights 3.5″ jets… massive difference. The twilight has a dual flow control and like 30 of the expensive high flow jets, these two tubs are not in the same class for performance.

  194. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 3:16 pm

    who was the rep? email me more details I’ll send you a pm

  195. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 3:15 pm

    Yeah, its all smoke and mirrors, cheap spa with a cheap price my advice would be to move along.

    If you are limited in the budget like most of us are don’t look for big flashy tubs with lots of bells and whistles and a cheap price look for simple basic spas. man the reality is any hot tub is awesome unless its a piece of crap that breaks all the time πŸ™‚

    goto Nordic spas or getaway hotubs, simple reliable easy

  196. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 3:11 pm

    Dude, I just sent you an email.

    Let me know who what where and when and what happened.

    when I refer a customer I will stand behind that customer and make it right.

  197. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 3:05 pm

    i emailed it to you

  198. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    right there the only one to consider in my top group is Beachcomber, build wise they are awesome but stay away from the Hybrid models in cold climates… its bad tech, and don’t expect much performance they are mid grade at best when it comes to high-end therapy massage, Coast is also okish way better performance on the high end and good build quality but they have Quality control issues, a lot of lemons seem to come out of that factory.

    But dude the biggest seller of hot tubs in Canada is around the corner and they carry my number one recommended brand.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.7View in Google Maps

  199. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 2:54 pm

    Hey dude

    Artesian
    then 6 or 7 spaces then Bullfrog

    the rest are not on my short list at all.

    Viking is just small and middle of the road, the other three are the worst of the worst.

    There are two big companies buying up loads of hot tub companies they have a great corporate profit model that basically goes like this…

    Get cheap goofy parts made special that only fit your tub.
    this way you are 100% guaranteed to get all the replacement parts business.
    Also, you are guaranteed to get 3x what the part is really worth because you control the part and therefore the price πŸ™‚
    Build to a mid-grade so they don’t last forever so you can keep selling hot tubs forever.
    spend lots on advertising, branding and bullshit marketing.
    great for corporate profits, crap for the consumer… this is what destroyed the appliance industry… stay away from the ass hats that are doing this…

    Jacuzzi, Hot springs and Sundance are all part of these asshat companies.

  200. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    Hey Bob

    Tall people love the molded contoured seating like the healthy living hot tubs, I guess it folds them up I hate them but I’m an average height guy.

    Big people like the open seating areas with big roomy footwells and lots of displacement area.

    I would not have Thermospas on my really real list.

  201. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 2:38 pm

    There are two big equity investment corporations buying up loads of hot tub companies.

    They have a great corporate profit model that basically goes like this…

    -Get cheap goofy parts made special that only fit your tub.
    -This way you are 100% guaranteed to get all the replacement parts business.
    -Also, you are guaranteed to get 3x what the part is really worth because you control the part and therefore the price πŸ™‚
    -Build to a mid-grade so they don’t last forever so you can keep selling hot tubs forever.
    -Spend lots on advertising, branding and bullshit marketing.
    -great for corporate profits, crap for the consumer… this is what destroyed the appliance industry… stay away from the ass hats that are doing this…

    Jacuzzis’ parent corporation is one of these asshat companies and it’s overpriced med grade spas now.

    Also support local, the jacs are made in Mexico
    Also, support local, you think they will not make sure local service in their home state is not awesome?
    Also go see them directly, you can buy blems πŸ™‚

  202. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 2:32 pm

    Hi Andy.

    They are both great spas and we are splitting hairs but here is why I like it πŸ™‚

    The twilight can actually flow more water through the main therapy seat and monster jets which is all I care about πŸ™‚

    read this

  203. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    I did!

    She is awesome, I wish I had of gotten ahold of her before.

    It’s built by them to the same standard in the same factory with the same parts but!!!! you need to order the full foam package as an addon!

  204. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    Hey Sharon

    The Hot Springs is a great marketing company the Artesian is a great hot tub.

    The artesian beats it in all areas, it’s going to perform better, be more reliable, have readily available OEM parts.

    There are two big companies buying up loads of hot tub companies they have a great corporate profit model that basically goes like this…

    Get cheap goofy parts made special that only fit your tub.
    this way you are 100% guaranteed to get all the replacement parts business.
    Also, you are guaranteed to get 3x what the part is really worth because you control the part and therefore the price πŸ™‚
    Build to a mid-grade so they don’t last forever so you can keep selling hot tubs forever.
    spend lots on advertising, branding and bullshit marketing.
    great for corporate profits, crap for the consumer… this is what destroyed the appliance industry… stay away from the ass hats that are doing this…

    Hot Springs is one of these asshat companies and it’s overpriced crap IMHO.

  205. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 1:54 pm

    it’s a fair price man

    happy hot tubbing

  206. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 1:53 pm

    Hi Mike

    I would say overall the Coast is a better tub, if you really want to know what pump is better to tell them to look at the rating plate on the electric motor and give you the amp rating of the motor… that’s way more indicative of the actual power of the pump… likely they are both between 12-16 amp.

    I’m not a fan of the little circulation pumps if they are the big 48 frame circulation pump then I don’t have such an issue but most are these shitty little pumps and the flow rates are crap and the failure rate high… See this article

    The filter thing is all spin and marketing they are all just as good for all practical purposes.

  207. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 1:48 pm

    OMG are you kidding me???

    I had no idea they still have nonremovable panels that is insane… but if it does leak there should be water across the bottom and you should see it in that front area.

    the other thing you could do is take a fish used for pulling wire in a house… you can get them at home depot.

    put a little strip of cloth on it and fish it along the base of the spa back t the other corners and see if the cloth is wet.

  208. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 1:45 pm

    I don’t know the dealer but the brand is one of my top two the reason it is number 2 is they have zero customers direct support so its a very dealer-centric line… if the dealer sucks yer screwed, master builds an identical product with the same parts and build quality and QC but have a robust back end for customer care.

    You also have one of my top rated dealers near you Hices are awesome, I know them and they are great people.

    Hice’s Pool Spa & Patio
    Status: HTU Approved
    Brands: Master, H2x, Clarity, Twilight

    These guys have a great line of spas and good service.

    Owner: Gerald
    Dealers #1 931-455-2500
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    507 W Lincoln St, Tullahoma, TN 37388
    +1 931-455-2500
    5.0View in Google Maps

  209. Reply
    admin April 25, 2019 at 1:36 pm

    Hi Steve

    Nothing good right around you for any of my recommended brands the area is a black hole for good brands, it has been dominated by flashy marketed mid grade crap that is taking over the industry.

    the nearest is Nordic spas but they are only entry level, well built but nothing fancy and no high-end massage spas.

    North Eastern Pool & Spa
    Nordic Sunrise
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    101 Ontario St, East Rochester, NY 14445
    http://www.385swim.com
    +1 585-385-7946

  210. Reply
    admin April 24, 2019 at 3:38 pm

    Hi Linda

    I sail the Virgin Islands once in a while, I love the area πŸ™‚

    I can get you set up I end up doing a pile of sales direct to remote markets just because there are no good resources locally. Ill hit you up on email.

  211. Reply
    admin April 24, 2019 at 3:35 pm

    nope, they all suck:-) and the problem is your eyes lol not enough rods and too many cones… or visa versa πŸ™‚

    two things…

    1 slide the strip up and down the chart… it helps to narrow down the range.
    2. use a good enzyme like spa marvel that stabilizes pH:-) I literally never use strips, I add 2 caps of alka plus a week and fill the dispenser.. the real trick is using a good treatment regime.

  212. Reply
    admin April 24, 2019 at 3:25 pm

    HI Gabe

    I’ll be honest I am not sure and while I love Artesian from a build standpoint, they are a tough bunch to get any information out of…

    I hit up their Marketing manager and got a copy of their brochure πŸ™‚

    I asked her a pile of real questions and we will see how that goes…

    From a cursory look, the tub is going to be mid-grade performance wise and certainly not in the class of a high-end therapy massage spa it’s mostly the inexpensive low flow therapy jets. the neck jet system because of the design is again likely restricted to 1.5″ jets which really are not effective on large muscle masses I really like to see 3.5″ jets there. Likewise, the foot jets instead of being the high flow 10″ units with a diverter valve are the 5″ which is better than lots f tubs but again not up to spec for a crazy massage spa. let’s see what they say about the build and go from there. the jet power feels nice because they are low flow high-pressure jets… read this:

    In the Sandiego are there are frankly not a lot of good options. The only other good build quality spa is the Beachcomber up near Vista! SoCal is a mess, most people are buying from out of market its just too expensive to do business there.

    I also have 10 independent service guys registered in the area so if we stay away from brands with proprietary parts you should be ok.

  213. Reply
    admin April 23, 2019 at 11:39 pm

    Hi Bryan. Its a fair price for your neck of the woods, my rule of thumb is to take what they offer and ask for more πŸ™‚ the best thing is just to say I like the tub and if you throw in a cover lifter we can wrap this up…

  214. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 3:28 pm

    Hey Jim

    Both are well built reliable spas.

    I would not do the upgrade, I do not like circulation pumps, they are a bit of a gimmick and have a high failure rate and are finicky, no up said at all. a microfilter is dubious and UV c while good tech is a couple hundred a year for bulbs, and again the big truth that manufacturers hate is that there are no onboard systems that are lower chemical, easier to manage and less expensive than the aftermarket stuff like Spa marvel and Aquafinesse πŸ™‚

    here is the routine…

    For every single spa in the world you need to do this:

    1, Blance the alkalinity to the upper end of OK around 130-150ppm
    2, balance the PH to around 7
    3, Balance the hardness to around 150.

    then we need to have a sanitizer typically chlorine or bromine at 1-3 ppm…

    now some systems like Ion filtration, ozone, UV, AOP, Enzymes, or minerals reduce the amount of chlorine or bromine needed

    things like Enzymes also stabilize the PH making the water more reliable and easier to manage.

    with the spa marvel system, you just add a bottle every 3 months. the other bottles are filter cleaner (every tub needs some type of filter cleaner aid) and spa purge (every tub you should run a bottle of purge through every year to clean the pipes.

  215. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 2:52 pm

    Clearwater seems like a decent build, not sure to be honest, haven’t seen one and don’t come across them much. I did reach out but they must live in a hole… never heard back πŸ™‚

    the difference between the Island series and the Twilight is the neck jets in the Island are 1.5″ low flow jets and the Twilight is 3.5″ hi flow jets… plus with the ability to divert a 6 Hp pump to the one seat you can flow a shit ton of water through the neck jets seat πŸ™‚

    In some areas buying from events can be a shot show but there you have so many independant service guys its not even funny, there are more service guys that retailers πŸ™‚

    you will not have any problems getting service.

  216. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 2:15 pm

    try these guys

    Allstar Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1821 Tin Valley Cir, Birmingham, AL 35235
    http://www.allstarpool.com
    +1 205-655-8870
    4.7View in Google Maps

  217. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 2:10 pm

    Hi Brian

    You are correct beachcomber is only guys still doing this equipment under the step. I remember in the ’80s there were loads of guys doing this.

    First off you can put any tub against a deck without having to drain and move it, it is a simple matter to frame in a removable trap door in the deck.

    The trade-off is big… You lose the ability to reclaim the waste heat from the pumps, big deal on an integrated system you can disconnect the heater and stay warm with just the waste heat from the motor, you are also pumping you hot water outside fo the insuialtion envelope… more heat loss, and in power outages freeze up is a real issue.

  218. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 1:58 pm

    yeah but it depends where you are, I’ll email you directly.

  219. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 1:57 pm

    So the big box stores are a nightmare for hot tubs, they are almost all crap the only one I have ever seen that was any good at all is the beachcomber through Costco but they are 9k πŸ™‚ That evolution spa at Costco is a Strong… see this video if you need any more said on that point πŸ™‚

    Of the rest of the Brands they rank like this:

    1. Artesian – Solid build, hand-rolled shell, glued and clamped plumbing, top parts, top insulation.




    5. Bullfrog – just like Artesian but with a lesser end shell, its a pedestal supported thinner plastic shell, old tech mostly abandoned but still in use where its too expensive to do glass because of environmental.
    6. Nordic, same… as above slight differnt shell but same idea and the insualtion is not as good.





    – Sundance, HotSprings – great marketing co0manbies, but mid-grade and way overpriced and aver sold, these guys spend too much on the bullshit and branding they just don’t spend enough on the construction of the tub and they use proprietary parts which are a borderline scam…

  220. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 1:21 pm

    Hi kelly

    the Artesian is a way better-built tub with better parts.

    Salt is old tech, all it does is make chlorine or bromine. the AOP uses UV and ozone, better for sure but frankly, I would not buy either.

    The thing hot tub manufacturers don’t want you to know is that the aftermarket stuff like Spa Marvel or Aquafinesse is lower chemical, easier to manage and cheaper πŸ™‚

  221. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 1:15 pm

    Dude yer right ion the middle πŸ™‚

    I got good options in Kansas City, Springfield, and St Louis.

    I’m sure any of them can take care of you there.

    Hot Spot pools in liberty do Marquis who is just out fo my top 5 until they can get the QC up a bit.

    but you have 3 master dealers around you, no Artisans which is my other top brand.

    Spas and More!
    Remove
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    12957 Gravois Rd, St. Louis, MO 63127
    spasandmorestl.com
    +1 314-843-7727
    3.3View in Google Map

    Above & Beyond
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    203 Armour Rd, Kansas City, MO 64116
    aboveandbeyondkc.com
    +1 816-421-4011
    3.9View in Google Maps

    Dougs Pool & Spa
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Endorsed Brands: Master Spas

    Met these guys in Fla good bunch with a great brand –
    Remove
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    5121 S Campbell Ave, Springfield, MO 65810
    http://www.dougspoolandspa.com
    +1 417-882-7665
    4.1View in Google Maps

  222. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 12:31 pm

    Hi Jean

    There are a few great brands, like master and Artesian, then a bunch of good ones then a bunch of overpriced crap πŸ™‚

    Price wise is all over you can spend $6k to 15k for a tub in that size range depending on how crazy you want the performance.

    In your area I have an all-star who does a great job, they have helped out dozens of my customers and never have I heard anything but good things back.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
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    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110 Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza, Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.4View in Google Maps

  223. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 12:27 pm

    dude look at these guys πŸ™‚ there great I know them personally and they have been around forever.

    look at the Getaway bar Harbour, rugged, well built, good insulation and top parts.. its a no brainer for rentals…

    Aqua Spas
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    637 Ken Pratt Blvd, Longmont, CO 80501
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-827-3368
    4.0View in Google Maps

  224. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 12:25 pm

    They are one of the best marketing companies in the hot tub world… But the product is, in my opinion, the middle of the road.

    They are into the proprietary parts game, which in my opinion is bad for the end user.

    I looked at them in January this year and there is nothing to justify the kind of money they want for that tub other than the massive amounts they spend on marketing, brand awareness etc, the shell was basically supported by high-density foam πŸ™‚ this is a just a cheap way to build a shell and is a nightmare when they leak, I can’t believe they still do this I cut a 4 year old top of the line one in half to get it out of a site because there were so many leaks and each leak required the tub to be lifted the base taken off, supported then ran then hours spent digging out rock hard foam.. it was a joke I was absolutely stunned to see them still building like this.

    the jetting was middle fo the road, there is no way this thing is going to perform like the really high-end units and reliability wise they have never been stellar, for years it was heater relay board failures and now its those cheap little junk circ pumps failing all the time, I did a poll of posts ion discussion sites and they had over 30% of the broken tubs that people were looking for help fixing, partly because of the high failure rate and partially because so many service guys won’t touch them…

    My personal belief is that groups like this are the bain of the industry, this nefarious idea that instead of spending money building great products you spend the money convincing people you are the best is just never a good scenario for the end user.. its a great scenario for corporate profits πŸ˜‰

  225. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 12:15 pm

    Hey Ben

    The Bullfrogs are a decent spa, better than most of the junk out there πŸ™‚

    But… you don’t need to spend this kind of money, you want a Roto mold, they are a thermal plastic shell and the good ones are almost indestructible, for rentals they are perfect, easy to run, simple and reliable and energy efficient.

    You can get good hard top covers like the Smart tops, but they are quite pricey, frankly, a good vinyl cover with a lifter should get you five years easy especially if you do some tricks to it when its new πŸ™‚

    Somthing like a Getawayhottub.com or Nordichottub.com

  226. Reply
    admin April 22, 2019 at 11:56 am

    They are both kind of mid-end brands. last time I looked they were both using Balboa control and heating systems that’s a good start πŸ™‚

    I really don’t know much about the two units.

  227. Reply
    admin April 20, 2019 at 6:18 pm

    From a build standpoint they are all good. Obviously performance changes over the lines.

  228. Reply
    admin April 20, 2019 at 6:16 pm

    Neither are verified. On paper they are similar. But both companies have issues. The qc on the vector I looked at and the goofy propritary parts make me say stay away. Coast has big backlash for quality control as well… Neither has bothered to get us in for verification which is at the least out of touch and at the worst secretive… man if yer doing it right and the guy that has half the buyeres the north America spending nearly billion dollars comes to you and says I can endorse your line if yer doing it right and you are not all aver that… there is somthing amiss πŸ™‚

  229. Reply
    admin April 20, 2019 at 6:11 pm

    Shit ya. Great deal…

  230. Reply
    admin April 20, 2019 at 5:58 pm

    80 liters every 2 weeks is high with the bather load you report. I’m of course assuming you have the cover on when not in use?

    I’m a daily user I top up every month or so and maybee put in 40l

    So a couple factors. If you are big people you take more water out same if you have long hair that you get wet, or do things that might spill water πŸ™‚ also I tend to do my hottubbing sans suits. The more clothing again exponentially more water.

    The reality Is it’s easy to see if a tub is leaking… take a side off.. if there I water inside the skirt its leaking if not it’s not…

  231. Reply
    admin April 20, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    Email me the quotes for your short listed tubs chris@hottubuniversity.com. let me see what you got going on.

  232. Reply
    admin April 20, 2019 at 5:45 pm

    Hey man

    I laughed as I read this. I’ve installed these units in the 80’s and know exactly what you are talking abou.

    It’s easy to replace the equipment and I can get it all for you at good prices and advise you.

    Drilling the shell is a lot bigger of a job. A lot of the problems with these built in units is access. I really dont recomend this course of action especially because you need the recessed pockets built into the shell and really mannif its holding water it’s an easy job to just get it up and running.

    Email me on chros@hottubuniversity.com and we can figure it out.

  233. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 8:15 pm

    SPA MARVEL QUICK AND EASY DIRECTIONS

    Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

    1. Remove Filters
    2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
    3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
    4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
    5. Refill the tub

    Spa Marvel Startup

    1. Heat water to desired temp
    2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
    3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
    4. Use test strips to test water
    5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
    6. Run pumps for 5 min
    7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
    8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
    9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

    Weekly

    1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
    2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
    3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

    ** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

    **RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

    **EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

    **IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE – MAKE SURE YOU ARE PUTTING 3 ENOUGH CHLORINE IN TO MAINTAIN 1PPM

    ** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH WITH MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF DETERGENT AND ALWAYS DO A SECOND RINSE, THE JETS ARE POWERFUL THEREFORE THEY PULL SOAP FROM THE CLOTHES AND IT’LL MAKE YOUR WATER FOAMY!!

    **IT’S SMART TO ONLY TEST YOUR WATER ONCE PER WEEK. ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS CAN SLIGHTLY ALTER THE PH AND ALKALINITY BUT THIS CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE JETS ARE RUNNING. YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDOSE YOUR WATER WITH CHEMICALS.
    ***LOCAL GOVERNMENT GUIDELINES SHOULD OVERRIDE THIS ADVICE EVEN IF IT IS YEARS OUT OF DATE AND TOTALLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY.

  234. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 8:14 pm

    Yer welcome man πŸ™‚

    Click my support button and buy me a coffee, it helps keep me independant πŸ™‚

    https://hottubuniversity.com/funding/

  235. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 3:31 pm

    I can’t find a Coast Luxury… But in general, the Coast would be a lot better than the Jacuzzi IMHO.

    The J-345 will be mid end performance, lots of the small jets and only a few of the high-end therapy massage jets, but the reason I would never buy or sell the brand has more to do with the proprietary parts than anything, the Coast uses good readily available parts so anyone can service them and get parts the jacuzzi uses proprietary parts which is what destroyed our appliance industry.. its a scam to make money by controlling the parts and getting parts that just fit your spa so the customer has no choice but to pay whatever you demand for parts and you always get the parts business…

    Also when I did a survey of the discussion forums jacuzzi had the second worst profile with loads of customers looking for helping to fix their broken hot tubs…

    If you want a crazy good therapy massage spa then check out the twilights.. see these guys, they’re good with service too.

    Leisure Works LLC
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    41430 Grand River Ave a, Novi, MI 48375
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 248-348-7727
    4.7View in Google Maps

  236. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 3:23 pm

    Hey Christine.

    Spa boy is a bit gimmicky… and frankly, so are saltwater systems. its old tech that makes you run around 1.5ppm of chlorine… we use enzymes and run at 0.5ppm they make it sound like spa boy is going to make things easier but let’s look at what it does…

    They claim that you don’t have to test the water because it reads out your ph for you but you still need to dip the strip to test for Alkalinity every week… and you still have to dose for alkalinity and PH manually so it really does nothing.

    They claim that it shocks the spa without having to use expensive shock but all it does is makes the generator make more chlorine πŸ™‚ you are way better to shock with a proper non-chlorine shock.

    The reason most companies don’t do these systems is that there is no way currently to do one that really takes care of all of it.

    I don’t like the Arctic. Way too much on BS marketing and branding and they use proprietary parts, and inexpensive low R-value insulation system and they don’t even clamp the plumbing lines IMHO the best thing about that brand is the brochure.

    Noe the Marquis and the Master and the Arctic all use a great hand rolled self-supporting shell but I reviewed the Marquis here and it had big quality control issues including a leak, a broken parts, and shoddy application of insulation, it took them out fo my top 5 until they can demonstrate they have tightened up their quality control. The master also edges them out on factory direct support that Marquis does not have.

  237. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 3:12 pm

    hey dude its a good choice for your area, there are so many brands that cost more and are just crap. πŸ™‚

  238. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 3:06 pm

    Hi Andrea

    I like Bullfrog, they are just out fo my top 5 which puts them ahead of most stuff in your area.

    for tall peeps the contoured seats seem to be a good fit, most of my tall customers love the molded seating I guess it folds them up a bit πŸ™‚

    like this kind of layout: countoured seats

  239. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    I toured the Cal factory and have to say not overly impressed. the “steel” they use in the shell is so thin that you could pick your teeth with it and for all that talk of the shell construction it turned out to be a regular old pedestal supported shell with these tiny little pieces of flimsy metal in them total BS marketing IMHO πŸ™‚

    On the top end, they use Balboa but one the lower ends they don’t, and you need to order the full foam upgrade, and the number of tubs in there testing area with faults was crazy high… Someone needs to take them and cut their lines down by 1/4 and streamline what they are doing.

    These guys got 5 locations have been around for 20+ years and i know them they are solid guys doing good stuff with good brands…

    Aqua Spas
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    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.0View in Google Maps

  240. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 2:57 pm

    Hi Rya

    They are a bit of an unknown, I’ve had a brief look but they have never sent me a unit to tear apart, they also have not brought me in to see the factory.

    In theory, they do the right things but without first-hand visibility, it’s hard to say for sure, they also have a bad reputation for quality control issues but again it’s unsubstantiated.

    I think you need to order the full foam upgrade and in your area, the only other locals are HotSprings and D1 and they are def going to better than that lot…

    I got a goto guy on the island that might be able to help.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110 Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza, Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.4View in Google Maps

  241. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 2:52 pm

    Hi Lyndsey

    The Sundance used to be better but since the buyout, they have gone to proprietary parts which is a big issue, frankly, IMHO they are part of the group that are great marketing companies with slick advertising, heavy branding and selling mid-grade spas at twice what they are worth because of it.

    I’m not sure the names of the UK models but just ask the local dealer or look at the pictures of the US models and compare them tot he UK ones, the build quality is going to be the same.

  242. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    Hey Justin, Hydropool is not even in my top 20. this was acquired by a big equity investment group that bought a bunch of these brands.. too much spin and BS and frankly mid-grade products, fancy branding, with price tags that are twice what they should be. Last I saw they were using Mylar insulation and a cradle supported shell πŸ™‚ that shit was basically banned in house construction and almost all the northern US states issued warnings about it back in the ’80s…

    These guys are a bit away a bit there are tons of local service guys around you most of the tubs in this area come from out of state or event sales…

    Leisuretime Warehouse
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    30140 Lakeland Blvd unit 1, Wickliffe, OH 44092
    leisuretimewarehouse.com
    +1 440-623-7554
    4.9View in Google Maps

  243. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 2:32 pm

    You got two good options, there is an Artesian dealer and its a good spas but they carry all kinds of stuff, I always like a dealer that primarily does hot tubs when it is a bolt online the service and support can be crap and I have had 2 customers report back that they were dissatisfied with the experience from the dealer, this is a big issue with that brand especially as there is zero factories direct support network…

    Go see these guys, I’ve sent piles of people there, I know them and they do good things and carry Master which is in my top group.

    Leisure Works LLC
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    41430 Grand River Ave a, Novi, MI 48375
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 248-348-7727
    4.7View in Google Maps

  244. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 2:27 pm

    Hey Jay

    Not much right around you but there are lots of independent service guys so if you stay away form proprietary parts you should be fine.

    As for filtration forget it.. it’s, all the same, I just shot a rant video about it…

    if you want clean safe easy to manage water get this shit.

    La is a mess, like 60% of the spas sold there are from event sales and out of town, the local retailer prices are bat shit crazy because it is so damn expensive to do business there. but the good side is there are like 40 independent service guys so just make sure you stay away from brands down the proprietary parts scam and you should be fine…

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Artesian, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com

    and more entry level price point:

    Spa Tek
    Status: Unverified

    We know nothing about these guys but for entry level spas the Nordic brand is on our good guy list.

    Nordic does entry level well made spas.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    21401 Budlong Ave, Torrance, CA 90502
    spatek.com

  245. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 2:10 pm

    Yeah, in theory, they do good stuff but they have a reputation for some quality control issues.

    and I haven’t seent the factory so its all hearsay πŸ™‚

    parts wise they are good and def a better option than most of the stuff out there.

  246. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 2:09 pm

    Hi Trisha

    Any spa with a cover lifter is easy to get off and lifters only cost you around $200, also if you take good care of your cover they last 5 years easy.

    I really like those covers too but unfortunately, the spa is just not great πŸ™

    You don’t have a lot of options down there…

    The Pool and Spa Center that carries Artesian and their Garden line is well built and should hit that price that is the best one locally for sure…

    Just out of my top 5 brands is Bullfrog sold through Leisure time but the prices will be too high I think and the shell is not my top pick

    The rest are just overpriced mid grade spas with fancy marketing and big branding…

  247. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 1:46 pm

    You need more width to comfortably fit two people side by side. you also need enough surface area for water displacement.

    if your thin people you might technically be able to do it but you won’t find one built like that because most people are not thin or small enough… about the narrowest ever seen for side by side is 60-70″

    Nordic does a model called the Stela at about 62″ is about as narrow as you will find for side by side seating.

    nearest dealer i know of is these guys

    Paradise Valley Spas
    1872 Rollins Rd, Burlingame, CA 94010

  248. Reply
    admin April 18, 2019 at 1:35 pm

    I don’t know yer my test monkey now πŸ™‚

    Follow what the dealer says, let me know how your water quality is and what chemical levels you need to maintain to keep it good πŸ™‚

  249. Reply
    admin April 17, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    Not Anymore dude πŸ™‚

    ozone only ever really rpoduced any decent amount of ozone for about a year.

    pumps go 3-5yrs from main pump or 5-10 for secondary pump

  250. Reply
    admin April 17, 2019 at 11:21 am

    Hi Andrew

    That was a current model top end Vector 21. I was recommending the brand but since that video, I was in touch with them encouraging them to get me in for a factory review, and or send me another spa for review but they just didn’t bother following it up… its a bit crazy to be honest, almost 100,000 hot tub buyers a year come to me for advice, before spending nearly a billion dollars in the US it seems insane that they would not be working really hard to fix this because my recommendation would sell them hundreds of hot tubs but so far communication has been spotty at best and until I get verification of their build and quality control I can’t endorse their brand.

    Go see these guys, I know the owner, they have been in business for decades and sell good spas at good prices and have great service.

    Aqua Spas
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    Details from Google Maps
    637 Ken Pratt Blvd, Longmont, CO 80501
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-827-3368
    4.0View in Google Maps

  251. Reply
    admin April 17, 2019 at 11:21 am

    Hi Andrew

    That was a current model top end Vector 21. I was recommending the brand but since that video, I was in touch with them encouraging them to get me in for a factory review, and or send me another spa for review but they just didn’t bother following it up… its a bit crazy to be honest, almost 100,000 hot tub buyers a year come to me for advice, before spending nearly a billion dollars in the US it seems insane that they would not be working really hard to fix this because my recommendation would sell them hundreds of hot tubs but so far communication has been spotty at best and until I get verification of their build and quality control I can’t endorse their brand.

    Go see these guys, I know the owner, they have been in business for decades and sell good spas at good prices and have great service.

  252. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    Hey Henry

    it’s a lot to put into an 11-year-old tub that’s had a bit of abuse πŸ™‚

    its a good price on a 900

    The Hot Spring and Sundance you mention are way overpriced πŸ™‚ those guys are great marking companies and mid-grade spa makers, I was looking at Hot Springs last week and they still use a high-density foam to support eh shell instead of a good hand rolled self-supporting shell, makes finding and fixing leaks a nightmare because that cheap Polly based foams turn to a rock, if yer filling the cavity you need a specialty foam that does not harden, its expensive but worth it, Those two brands are also running the same parts scam that killed the appliance industry! Proprietary parts are a bad bad thing put in place to skin people for overpriced parts for life… stick with an easily sourced OEM parts list man its critical.

  253. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 2:50 pm

    Hi Lyndsey

    I don’t know what that is… do you have a link?

  254. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    I’ve not used the Masterpur not because it is bad, the reality is of all the upgrades it is one of the better technologies, the reason I don’t sell it is it requires a circ pump which I am not a fan of and things like Spa Marvel are better and cheaper and have no service issues. let me know how it works out for you.

  255. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 2:46 pm

    Hot Tub Warehouse carrier Marquis and it used to be in my top 5 and might get there again if they can show me the QC has improved but the last one I saw personally was a mess.

    My buddy Griffen is not too far away and has Master which ios in my top 3 and he likely has service there.

    Master spa Toronto
    Griffin Ryan
    griffryan@hotmail.com
    1 (416) 779-0563

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1535 Meyerside Dr #16, Mississauga, ON L5T 1M9
    View in Google Maps

  256. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    All the spas in those lines use the eco pure and 1 tsp of chlorine is about right every couple days. that will keep you at around 2 ppm I use spa marvel and get that down to about 1/2 ppm on mine.

    $10k is about right for that tub depending on area and options.

  257. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 7:22 am

    Hey Pete

    Try the Nordic spas at Aqua elite

    Aqua Elite Pool & Spa
    Brand – Nordic
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9321 E Sprague Ave, Spokane Valley, WA 99206
    http://www.aquaelite.com
    +1 509-536-7772

  258. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:59 am

    Lazy boy isn’t really a brand it’s just a private label last time it was Sunrise building them but it changes a lot and not a brand I recommend.

    Bullfrog or Beachcomber dude and don’t be fooled by Nasa shit, mylar is a radiant barrier and the reason they use it is to reflect radiation away from the astronauts πŸ™‚

    these reflective foils are cheap and do not work well when trying to contain heat in a system because they have little or no thermal mass… read this:

    go see my buddy grif!

    Master spa Toronto
    Griffin Ryan
    griffryan@hotmail.com
    1 (416) 779-0563

  259. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:55 am

    man if yer going with either make sure its a dealer that has carried the line for 5-10 years… these goofy brands with proprietary parts really need good dealers.

    Ya didn’t put in yer zip so I can only get an estimate of Baltimore send zip and ill see if you have and good service guys around you…

  260. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:51 am

    Hey Andy holy dude you went to the top πŸ™‚

    enjoy and if ya need help reach out!

  261. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:50 am

    HI!

    crazy I just drove by you guys the other day πŸ™‚

    get a getaway hot tub… simple reliable and indestructible… call these guys.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    dhenry1201@gmail.com

  262. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:47 am

    Man there are no good brands right around you but you do have a good service guy!

    Oasis Pool & Spa Services Inc
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2119 Conley Rd, Chittenango, NY 13037
    +1 315-687-3188

    call these guys they build good spas, and with the local service guy should be able to take good care of you.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.7View in Google Maps

  263. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:45 am

    So alkalinity is not the same as Ph.

    Alkalinity is the ability of the water to stabilise Ph so its not as bad as you think but!!! it’s way easier to manage your water with proper alkalinity.

    go buy Alka rise, or alkalinity increaser sometimes called ph stabilizer… every week it will drop and you need to add it in…

  264. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:27 am

    Hi Jim.

    if we lose power only one thing matters… R-value so the artesian is going to lose heat a lot more slowly.

    here is the easy fix for any tub in a power outage… I always have a trouble light hanging in the equipment area of my tub with a 40 or 60w old school incandescent bulb. in a power outage I plug it into my jenny block and vent holes in the skirt and forget it, it will stay warm forever…

    from a build standpoint, the Artesian kills the Arctic in my opinion… The Arctic has a good shell but it ends there… No clamps on the plumbing, way less insulation, and proprietary parts!

    The Artesian is one of my top rated spas and the Arctic is in that group that do a better job of spin, branding, and marketing than they do building hot tubs πŸ™‚

  265. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:21 am

    HI Steve.

    The down east would be more comparable performance wise to the HL, but not far off the Clarity.

    Its all about the jetting man… look at the clarity, all small low flow jets and a few mid flows…

    then look at HL, now we have a good mix of high flow and low flow jets.

    then go to Twilight and now its almost all hi flow therapy massage jets but when you start getting this many hi flows you need flow control so you can divert all the water from one fo the big pumps tot he seat… so it gets expensive because not only are the jets 3x more but the flow control adds a lot, but you got great 2.5″ neck and trap jets and the monsters in the floor which again you can put a whole pump to.. they just kill it for knees, legs, feet, and even lower back.

    the MPL has the same main captains seat as the TS but its really more of an all-round tub, very flashy and I do like how they have one whole seat set up with little jets than the main seat set up with all hi flows… both are great but my preference for massage (which is all I use my tub for) is the TS.

  266. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:16 am

    Shit dude I got nothing in your area πŸ™ I would say Maxx I suppose only because the Hot Springs is one of my least favorite because of the parts and the shell and the HD foam, and the Pinnacles I have personal experience with because some guys dumped a pile here then ran away and we service them and they’re just not great.

    Man with the strong US dollar I would go to Niagara Canada buy one and bring it in and pay duty at the border… There are a couple local service guys around you that can deal with service…

    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

  267. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:12 am

    Hi Art

    The jacuzzi spas IMHO are overpriced mid grade spas that spend way too much on brand awareness, marketing and all the other bullshit that dominates sales. Just the parts list alone would have me running for the hills, I would never buy or sell a brand using proprietary parts its a total scam in my opinion.

    The TS or the MPL have the same main therapy seat with the 3.5″ hi flow neck and trap jets and the monster jets, I prefer the Twilight because you get better performance out of 2 big pumps compared to 4 smaller ones and the configuration lets you flow more water through the main seat but I’m splitting hairs.. They both are great and I do like that the MPL has one seat with all the small jets and then one with all the big hi flow therapy jets.

    Personally i only uise the main corner seat because for me a hot tub is all about massage, I also liek the big open footwell int he TS because i sit in it and use the monster jets for my lower back πŸ™‚

  268. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:06 am

    That’s a good price on that tub man.

  269. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 6:01 am

    Haha! I’m you dude, 52 broken and racing kayaks at the old guy national level πŸ™‚ I’m dumb as a stick sometimes…

    I’m gonna hit you up directly I can get you sorted out down there.

  270. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:58 am

    Hi Cassi.

    I would not have the Integrity on my short list, IMHO it’s a cheap spa not a great price on a good spa.

    Catalina would be a better option for sure, I have not seen one in a while and have reached out to them but they must be oblivious because if they were even a little bit on the ball and the guy who is talking to 100,000 hot tub buyers a year called they would be falling over themselves to get on my good side πŸ™‚ lol

  271. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:54 am

    Hi Irene

    This is a weird one… The maximum temperature is 104, but with the Balboa system on that spa when the temp drops even I fraction of a degree it will show 103.

    get an independant temperature sensor and check the temp I bet you are damn near 104.

  272. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:51 am

    Hi Dee

    The problem is that the noise is because of the flow rate more than anything so the tubs that are moving a lot of water which is what you want for hi-end therapy massage can be noisy but typically they are only noisy if they are halfway, they quiet down a lot when they are all one way or the other. If you look you will find that the quiet ones or powering mostly small low flow High-pressure jets and the noisy ones are powering hi flow low-pressure therapy massage jets.

    You can’t win this one man you simply can not slam that much water through a diverter and not have cavitation noise.

  273. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:45 am

    Hi Carla

    first-time buyers usually buy a lounger. We’re dry land creatures we like the idea of a lounger because I’m in dry land the very comfortable it support your weight you can recline.

    In water environment you’re floating you don’t really appreciate a long torso, second-time buyers.

    Brand-wise I don’t really like any of them.

  274. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:41 am

    That really depends.

    If that’s Canadian dollars it’s an awesome price. If that’s US it’s too high

  275. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:40 am

    hi Ida.

    And you’re very you’re right near the Master Spas Factory which is in Fort Wayne Indiana.

    Often times at the factory level you can go in and buy seconds and two lines discontinued in what they called blemished models. These are usually models with little imperfections nothing structural but you know cosmetically they might have a little Mark on them.

    And you can use to get great deals on them.

    The other thing is if you’re right beside the main Factory you know you’re going to get taken care of there’s no way they’re going bad stuff happen in their local market.

  276. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:35 am

    Hi Charles.

    Didn’t know there was a local dealer in Austin but I have 4 independant service guys down there so if you ever have problems with service hit me up and ill hi[ook you up with a good guy.

    The tubs are very different… the TS is full of the expensive hi flow therapy jets, has 3.5″ neck jets and twin 10″ master blasters, it is a performance monster, the Nautilus is really more of a mid-end performance model with mostly the inexpensive low flow jets and only about half the number of good jets that the TS has.

    From a build standpoint again the TS is better and the big problem I have with the D1 is that since it got taken over by the jacuzzi group they are filling it with proprietary parts which for me is a deal breaker, the TS has the top OEM parts you can buy.

    IMHO the D1 is overpriced mid grade spa with a lot of fancy branding, marketing, and BS. The truth is these heavily branded models typically are not great spas they spend too much on the marketing and not enough on the spa.

  277. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:25 am

    Hi Archie

    They are good spas from a build standpoint and have the standard mix of high flow and regular jets that you typically see on upper-end spas. they use a hand-rolled shell, clamp the plumbing lines and use the Icynene foam insulation system.

    They really fit tall people well and performance wise have good jet pressure. I’m not 100% sure the Hp rating on the pumps but believe they are 4.5hp. Don’t get too concerned with the pump Hp rating, despite all the marketing BS around pumps most use a 10-12 amp 240v motor the end pressure on the jet has as much or more to do with how efficient the spa is plumbed and for the most part most tubs flow good pressure unless they are putting 100 jets in without flow control.

  278. Reply
    admin April 14, 2019 at 5:20 am

    So Balboa is not the brand of hot tub it is the brand of the heating and control system, it’s a good system, my top rated in fact.

  279. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 2:01 pm

    Hey Nancee

    The lifter for the covers on the 240 is tricky but your local dealer should have options.

    I would try the spa marvel its as good and cheaper.

  280. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 1:51 pm

    Hey Jenn

    Sorry for the delay I was volunteering and had to feed and drive around 8 15-year-olds for the past month. been flat out πŸ™‚

    warranties…

    1. make sure they are not prorated.
    2. find out up front if there is a call out charge and how much.
    3. watch for “lifetime” its a scam… it’s not defined legally, could be the lifetime of the product…

    also dont take the warranty as an indication of quality…

    look at it this way… if I make a crappy tub and know its gonna start to fail at year 3 and cost $300 every year for failures I just add $900 onto the price and put a 5 year warranty on it πŸ™‚ still a shitty tub and I just covered the cost of the failures by charging you more… It’s what a lot fo the expensive brands do… They are mid grade spas with a high failure rate and have the best warranties in the business πŸ™‚

  281. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 1:45 pm

    Sorry for the delay I’ve been volunteering all month for a bunch of kids at spring training.. damn near killed me πŸ™‚

    good price man

  282. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 1:44 pm

    wow its like a twilight 7 without the monster jets πŸ™‚

  283. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 1:42 pm

    Hi Nancee

    Sorry for the delay I was volunteering for a bunch of athletes at spring training and spend the last 10 days feeding and mentoring 8 15-year-olds then driving across country with a load of racing kayaks πŸ™‚

    The guys at crocker are good lads any will do πŸ™‚

    look at the jetting, if massage is the goal get lots of pumps and big jets. see this article.

    hard wired stay hot longer when you are in them and have more powerfull pumps.

    not sure about Cape Cod shops πŸ™

  284. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 1:38 pm

    Thanks, Larry

    we use a local dealer when we do these deals in an area where there is no dealer, the reality is great dealers are about communication, information, and knowledge not proximity!

  285. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 1:35 pm

    I was a big fan of Aquafinesse because the enzymes were not great but Spa marvel hit it and they are dead even in my opinion. I have moved most of my customers over to it and they are happy.

    bypass the softener.

  286. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 1:34 pm

    put steel wool in any hole you think they might have gotten in. spry a little expanded foam to keep it in place they hate it and won’t chew through it

  287. Reply
    admin April 12, 2019 at 1:32 pm

    Hey Andy!

    sorry for the delay I was away!

    yeah for aches and pains the good therapy tubs make a world of difference show her this video πŸ™‚

    the artesian or the master are good spas.

  288. Reply
    admin April 6, 2019 at 11:22 am

    Man Rochester is a mess, all the big heavily branded shit heads have that market sewn up.

    The Coast and the Bullfrog are the only two I would touch the other ones are full of proprietary parts and spend more on bullshit marketing and branding than they do on the ho tutb πŸ™‚

  289. Reply
    admin April 5, 2019 at 8:33 am

    Hi Jenn

    Most review sites are pay to play πŸ™‚ if you advertise you get on the list and the more you advertise the better you rank. this crazy world we live in is all smoke and mirrors especially when it comes to marketing and branding.

    I don’t rank those tubs very high because if I cut through the marketing and look at what they are spending n the hot tub and then try and justify the retail pricing the big branded heavily marketed brands always end up being mid-grade for insane high pricing all based on the money they put out for the advertising, branding, marketing instead of the actual build quality and money spent on the actual product.

    lest just look at Hot Springs… 1st off when I went through hundreds of comments in discussion forums in the section asking for help fixing broken hot tubs these guys were the worst by far… There were a hugely disproportionate amount of people asking for help for broken tubs… There are two reasons, 1. The parts are not the top end they are a IMHO a lesser quality proprietary part and 2. Because of the parts scam and the goofy build a lot of independent service guys won’t touch them. then let’s look at the actual spa build…

    The shell is an inexpensive thinner shell that they then support using poly based foams that harden into a rock when they cure. so they spent way less building the shell and spent less using a cheaper foam, in the end, it made the shell okish again nowhere near as expensive or as strong as a hand-rolled fiberglass shell and the insulation R-value okayish but at what cost??? the cost to the end user is a spa that when it leaks is crazy expensive or in some cases almost impossible to fix because you can’t find or fix the leak without removing the spa and putting it on a test bench and spend hours chipping out this hard foam which not only is a nightmare but now weakens the structure of the shell… all to cut costs of producing the shell and insulation system! even their top tubs have mostly low flow inexpensive jets and a few of the high flow jets and that goofy noisy clunky wave jet which is no more expensive than any large jet. WHERE IS THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS TO BE PRICED AS A SUPER HIGH-END HOT TUB??? The truth is the cost to produce this tub is the same as most of the mid-grade tubs out there but because they are ultimately a marketing company and a great one at that the supporting sales bunf, branding, advertising, etc give the perception that it is a superior spa… its the crazy bullshit marketing world where the reality has little to do with the truth… Why I hate this kind of manufacturer is not because they are the worst spa they aren’t, they are arguably as good as most of the stuff out there but they are nowhere near as good as the really well-made spas that you can buy for a lot less money πŸ™‚

    That being said with a great dealer that knows the ins and outs of the brand you can have a good run, but these goofy brands are very dealer-centric, you need a great dealer with years and years carrying this brand. You’re still going to overpay for what you get and you are going to overpay for parts down the road.

    If you want to buy local then Black Pines sells Artesian, they are much better built, better performing, and use great reliable OEM parts you can get easily… This is a much better scenario for the end user… There are also piles of independent service guys in the area because a lot of hot tubs there are bought from event sales. so again sticking with a brand with a standard OEM parts list you can get good service from the local guys.

  290. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 10:01 am

    for this scenario get a good roto mold, they take a beating and work well. ill send you some options.

    check yer email.

  291. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:58 am

    crocker for some reason private brands the line… but yeah its the same spa. it’s a CLarity Balance 8

  292. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:56 am

    Hey jean

    I’m gonna tackle swim spas this year but the reality is they are just big hot tubs so 90% of the info is 100% transferable.

    The only extra thing is the flow rate for the swim jets.

    The H2x for home use is my top tub, build wise, insulation wise parts wise, and flow rates unless you are like a high-end competitive swimmer than the Phelps

    hit these guys up:

    Master Spas of Northern WI
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2138 W Wisconsin Ave, Appleton, WI 54914
    masterspaswi.com
    +1 920-727-1700
    4.4View in Google Maps

  293. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:52 am

    Hi Guys

    Yeah right around $800 to a grand is right for electrical… Its what I charge πŸ™‚

  294. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:50 am

    Both good spas from a build standpoint and the Santa Cruz are above the HL628 for performance but below the TS 6.2 https://www.masterspas.com/twilight/ts-62

    I would not go with a lounger in these small tubs… Only first time buyers buy loungers πŸ™‚ second-time buyers around 80-90% of the time opt for no lounger… loungers are dry land thinking in a water environment you are floating… you don’t notice the benefits of a lounger and they take up tons of space and you always have to hold on to keep from floating away… you want great massage got to the TS67.25… way better neck jets with the 3.5″ mid flows instead of the usual 1.5″ low flows and they have the monster jet which is great for legs feet and even lower back if you sit in the well.

  295. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:44 am

    Hi Myra

    I toured the H2X factory last year.. they do clamp the lines, and hand roll the shells and use the top OEM parts and good insulation, they are arguably the top swimmer out there. They invented swimmers, and they worked with Michael Phelps and Bob Bowman his coach to design good flowing swim spas, the H2X gained a lot of really good tech from the development of the Phelps swim spa line for the pro swimming industry. It wasn’t just an endorsement deal it was a collaboration to design a top end swim trainer… these guys are miles ahead in the swim spa game…

  296. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:40 am

    Shit 10-12k should get you almost anything… def an HL or maybe even a twilight if they have a demo unit…

    check these guys out for sure:

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.4View in Google Maps

    Minnesota hot tubs also sell bullfrog and Nordic which is just out of my top list but better than the rest of the crap around you πŸ™‚

  297. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:35 am

    Hey, we both live near fall river!!! my Fall River is in Canada though πŸ˜‰

    Locally I would only look at the Nordic spas they sell them at Nordic – Four Season Spas in Rehoboth and Apollo Pools and Spas in Lakeville.

    these guys are further away but a known quantity and they carry Getaway which is basically the same as Nordic with better insulation and thicker shells.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  298. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:22 am

    Hey Todd

    Arctic, Coyote, Hot Springs, Freeflow are great marketing companies making what I feel are overpriced mid grade spas with way too much bullshit marketing, spin, and branding πŸ™‚ they are full of mid-grade proprietary parts which for me is a deal breaker and that doesn’t even get into the build quality which again IMHO is middle of the road at best.

    if you stay local the only one I would consider on my short list would be the Bullfrog from The Great Escape in Davenport other than the shell its a good tub and way better than the other ones you mentioned. then a little further out you have Nordic from Anderson pool in Ottawa, and then these guys in Bloomington is my nearest known dealer…

    Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personally met these guys and spent a few days with them, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps

  299. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:16 am

    Hi Myra

    Sorry for the delay in responding, this site is so busy now… and I’m chaperoning 8 – 15 yr olds at spring training in Florida! man, they eat a lot πŸ™‚

    Im with you, education and real information is scarce in this world of spin, marketing, and half-truths… does my head in πŸ™‚

    Other than build quality (exact same things as a hot tub) the swimmers need depth…. especially for low impact recovery work… the H2X line and the Phelps lines do the deepest tubs out there, its the difference between being up to your belly button in water or up to your neck….

    Inside or outside but obviously make sure the outside ones have insulation… I’m in Canada and swim outside all year in mine πŸ™‚

    hit these guys up and tell them Chris says Hi I know these boys personally they will take care of you and if they don’t ill beat them with a stick and make them take care of you πŸ™‚

    Master Spas of Northern WI
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2138 W Wisconsin Ave, Appleton, WI 54914
    masterspaswi.com
    +1 920-727-1700
    4.4View in Google Maps

  300. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:10 am

    Hey ken go see these guys

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    tim@atlasspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004
    4.6View in Google Maps

  301. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:09 am

    No worries man let me know how it turns out, and hot me up if you have any issues

  302. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:08 am

    Hey Craig

    The Artesian is way better than the Hot springs for sure…

    there is a Master guy here:

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    tim@atlasspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004
    4.6View in Google Maps

  303. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Hey man!

    The only thing around you is in Chean but they sell Jacuzzi, I’m not a fan of these guys… big branding and advertising and fancy marketing covering what in my opinion is a mid-end tub that is massively overpriced.

    There is also an independent spa service guy near you I’m gonna reach out and see what he can do.

  304. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 8:56 am

    hey dude!

    I did ten years in the UK down in West Sussex, both my kids were born there πŸ™‚

    In general, the Marquis is decent I have some concerns about the build quality after that vector 21 I saw… I would say the Master is better for quality control for sure and the HL is a nice tub, good mix of regular and high flow jets. I’m big on full foam but I’m in Canada mate… gets bloody cold here, I know most of the UK is fairly temperate by comparison so not as big of an issue and even the partial foam they do is pretty thick

  305. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 8:43 am

    I would choose Marquis over the Hot Springs for sure… Hot Springs is a great marketing company putting out what I consider a mid-grade way overpriced spa… Their entry level stuff is ok but man I looked at them last week… The shell is not self-supporting and they use pedestal supports and high-density foam to hold the shell together! the big issue here is when they leak yer screwed.. That foam turns into a rock and finding and fixing them is a massively expensive nightmare… They also use proprietary parts which IMHO is a total scam…

    Once you get outside of an hour you are out fo the effective range of most dealers… so after an hour they are gonna use local service or electricans for fixing. so make sure you stick with good OEM parts…

    I like the Master, well built, good parts and they have a factory direct support network if you have no local dealer, the Marquis and the artesian (Artesian dealer near Burlington) use the same parts and build method but no factory direct support so you need a good dealer…

  306. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 8:32 am

    Not a fan of Jacuzzi at all. there are two types of hot tub companies… Guys building great hot tubs and guys building great marketing companies πŸ™‚ The marketing guys spend scads of money on the branding, the advertising, and the bullshit and put out mid grade spas at massively overpriced retail pricing and they are full of Proprietary parts. these companies are great at making profit but mid-grade at making hot tubs.

  307. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 8:27 am

    D1 was bought by the group that bought jacuzzi Hydropool etc etc… not a great start.

    last I looked they were a great marketing company building a mid-end overpriced spa… it had a cradle supported shell and Gecko heating and control system… Now that that group owns them it’s likely they have or will move over to a proprietary parts list because that’s the way these marketing guys do it…

  308. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 8:23 am

    Awesome ill but the Tomken on my good guy list, I like both brands from a build quality standpoint, from a performance standpoint eh BC stops at the mid-end I wish they build a serious performance tub…

    what did you buy?

  309. Reply
    admin April 4, 2019 at 8:21 am

    Sorry for the delay

    I’m chaperoning 8- 15 yr olds at spring training… stretched a little thin this month!

    The only two brands I would buy would be an Artesian from Coastal pool and spa in Placentia or the Marquis from Marquis hot tubs in Camarillo.

    There are almost no retailers left in LA for hot tubs the only guys surviving are the heavily branded lines with the massively overpriced mid grade units with huge margins… fools tubs…

    West Coast buys most of their hot tubs from shows, event sales or the net… There are tons of independent service companies down there so as long as you stay away from the crap with all the proprietary parts you are fine… Ignore filtration bullshit, all hot tubs filter well funny I have just done a video on this point… stay away from the little low flow circulation pumps and don’t buy any of the fancy chemical reduction systems… Salt, UV, etc etc it’s not that they are horrible but the lowest chemical easiest to run systems are the Enzymes like spa marvel or the mineral systems like aquafinesse and you can run them on any tub.

  310. Reply
    admin April 2, 2019 at 3:38 pm

    Hye Tim.

    Man, that’s a close one I would have to say the Cal if and only if you order the full foam upgrade and make sure its the Balboa control and heating system, they use Waterways on the cheaper end…

    I don’t like the hot springs, great marketing but a mid-grade shell supported by high-density foam instead of hand rolling a good fiberglass shell and that means you are screwed if you get a leak because that bloody foam turns to a rock when it hardens. They also use proprietary parts and that is a just a scam, its what killed the appliance industry follow the links for more information on why I am totally against proprietary parts, they also use circ pumps and the damn things filter way less water than the hi flow systems and fail way more aften… Hot Springs is the best at old-style marketing, branding, and spin but the reality is IMHO its a mid-grade spa with a price tag of twice what its worth to cover the cost of all that marketing… hell its one of the brands that got me pissed off enough to start this site πŸ™‚

    Go see these guys!

    Home Innovations Spas
    paulwalz@spasonline.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2001 NE-2, Lincoln, NE 68502
    spasonline.com
    +1 402-421-2922
    4.8View in Google Maps

  311. Reply
    admin April 2, 2019 at 3:29 pm

    Hey Julie

    Thanks for taking the time to say hi!

    You can’t go wrong with either of those tubs from a build quality standpoint, they are basically built the same with most of the parts, insulation and fabrication standards the same.

    Performance wise they are vastly different. The Beachcomber is mostly low flow jets and no flow control and little or no neck jets system and no serious foot massage. the TS is a massage spa with almost all the expensive hi flow therapy jets, 3.5″ high flow neck jets and the master blaster jets with dual flow control… I can tell you never wet tested… they are chalk and cheese from a performance massage standpoint the TS flows as much water through the main captain’s seat as the whole BC virtually.

    Hybrid is old tech, I remember 30 years ago most tubs had the equipment outside but they all put it inside for 3 really good reasons…

    1. in a power outage you equipment can freeze really quickly if it’s under that stupid step if it’s under the hot tub is basically sitting under a massive hot water bottle and is good for ages!

    2. how much sense does it make to spend all that money for all that insulation and then pump your hot water outside fo that insulation envelope into a virtually uninsulated step???

    3. You can not reclaim the waste heat from the pumps if they are outside the tub! this is massive the heat generated from those motors is huge!

    ts old outdated tech and the only reason they still do it is that no one else does so it gives them a unique selling feature so if they can convince you it is a good thing then they sell you a tub πŸ™‚

  312. Reply
    admin April 2, 2019 at 3:17 pm

    Hey Rob.

    based on this question I did a video and am adding a section on filtration to the site πŸ™‚

    I’m gonna email you a sneak peek link πŸ˜‰

    The long and short of it is no… it’s 99% bullshit marketing… All filters are out of reach unless you are determined:-) when you take the filter out of the pressure filter housing the exact same amount fo stuff falls out of the filter into the canister and then when you put the new filter in there is loads of that debris in the center of the filter tube and it gets blown into the tub as soon as you turn it on anyway πŸ™‚ the downside to this older technology is you are filtering water on the pressure side of the pump after it goes through the equipment which means all that debris goes through the equipment first!!! The modern filtration systems filter on the suction side… exact same flow etc except it filters before the equipment… so it reduces the amount of crap going through the pumps and heater…

    Also, remember filters have almost nothing to do with the cleanliness of your hot tub’s water form a bacteria and virus standpoint… That’s water chemistry filters in hot tubs just remove debris… and they all work well πŸ™‚

  313. Reply
    admin April 2, 2019 at 3:10 pm

    They are not a bad tub, just out fo my top 5 but better than most of the junk out there.

    frankly, unless you go to Pittsburgh it’s likely your best option.

    let me know if you want to buy direct I can usually get you good options in remote areas like this where there are few brands.

  314. Reply
    admin April 1, 2019 at 6:37 am

    Hey Drew

    I saw one yesterday in Florida and had a good look. It likely offers a slightly better flow at the manifold but its minor and does not address any of the other issues or offer any significant advantages. its still not a bad spa overall, but its claims of reduced pipe means it should be cheaper not more expensive and the claims of increased efficiency because of less pipe is not really back up by the science, The neck jets are all the low flow 1.5″ which just do not cut it for shoulder neck and there are no great foot blasters at all. That together with the ABS plastic pedestal supported shell means it will always just hover on the edge of my top 10 but never likely quite make it… there are better-built better-performing spas for less money. see review here

  315. Reply
    admin April 1, 2019 at 5:53 am

    Hey Mark.

    first, in Calgary, go see the gals at Empress Hot Tubs. they carry good brands and take good care of customers.

    Used is always a risk but can be done. the key is getting a good used spa… it needs to be up and running and pay the $150 to have a service guy go out and look it over.

    do at least these things… remove sides, have a look around leaks or evidence of past leak repairs are a warning. look int he equipment area, shoot piictures and send them to me or get a tech out.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9, Canada
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.2View in Google Maps

  316. Reply
    admin April 1, 2019 at 5:48 am

    Hey Evan

    The entry-level Hot springs are not bad, last I looked they use a simple reliable parts list on that line and they are priced well. It’s their upper-end that’s the scam IMO πŸ™‚

    also refurbished with a warranty or used if you are a handyman can be good options.

  317. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 10:11 am

    both good spas definitely not in the nightmare group and both right on the edge of my top 5 group.

    have a boo at these guys too:

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.4View in Google Maps

  318. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 10:09 am

    Hi!

    Funny name! ill call you needy for short πŸ™‚

    That price literally made me spit my coffee all over my laptop, I’m sending a cleaning bill πŸ™‚

    I am not a fan at all, in my opinion, its a mid-grade spa, like most of the brands out there. The one I tore apart in January the shell was a mid-grade cradle supported shell, there were no clamps on the plumbing and that reflective insulation system would never meet code for a house in any cold climate so its not good enough for a hot tub unless you live in a temperate climate…

  319. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 10:01 am

    Artesian, they are both close though neither is a nightmare and they build using the same techniques and good OEM parts.

    Griffin pools sell marquis and Bullfrog which are both decent brands as well.

  320. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 9:56 am

    Hi Chelsea

    finally an easy one πŸ™‚ (not you! your comment πŸ™‚

    go see these guys they are one of the oldest and largest and I know them personally they do a good job and sell my top recommended brand

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6024 S College Ave, Fort Collins, CO 80525
    aquaspasinc.com
    +1 970-226-3353
    3.2View in Google Maps

  321. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 9:54 am

    Hi Isaiah

    The Marquis for sure, the Hot springs in my opinion is a great marketing and advertising company and builds a mid-grade overpriced hot tub to cover the huge costs of these old school marketing and advertising methods πŸ™‚

    I looked around the area and the best comparison for the Marquis would be these guys:

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.4View in Google Maps

  322. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 9:39 am

    Hi Rita

    The Marquis for sure, Hotsprings is one of the brands that specialize in great branding and marketing instead of building great hot tubs. The shell is not great and on their high end, it’s actually supported by a closed cell structural foam! that’s insane, no one does this anymore because if you ever get a leak its near impossible to find and fix. I’m also 100000% against the proprietary parts scam being run by some of these guys this is what killed the appliance industry you need to stick to a good OEM readily available parts list read this… Its funny I spent an hour with a HotSprings dealer that has been selling the line for 20+ years, i went over that line and there is zero justification for the insane pricing other than the fact that they spend so much of their customers money on old school dodgy marketing and branding tactics… In my opinion, it should be a mid-priced spa, it is nowhere near as well built as the top brands.

    The Marquis is a funny one, I was recommending the brand for a long time until I got ahold of a Vector spa and tore it apart, loads of quality control issues including a plumbing leak, 2 faults, and some big quality control issues. If you go with these guys stay with their regular lines because on top of everything the vector has a lot fo proprietary parts…

    A good comparison for the Marquis would be the Master it’s built the same, with virtually identical parts from the same manufacturers and uses the same manufacturing techniques that I insist on for a tier one ranking but they have better factory direct support, and from what I have seen a lot better QC

    Above & Beyond
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    203 Armour Rd, Kansas City, MO 64116
    aboveandbeyondkc.com
    +1 816-421-4011
    3.9View in Google Maps

  323. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 9:29 am

    patio stones with a properly prepared crusher dust base are perfectly adequate.

  324. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 9:20 am

    Hi Marnie

    The great price point tubs are just cheap, the price seems cheap but when you put them up against well built well-insulated swimmers they aren’t cheap.. they end up being more expensive because of costly repairs and heating costs.

    The Coast is decent and there is an Artesian dealer in Courtney but man the H2X swimmers are my goto and there is a local service agent called G&Z right beside you so as long as you stay away from brands running the proprietary parts scam you should be fine.

  325. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 9:14 am

    Yeah, I like their build quality and parts list they are the top of my top 5 list.

    There is very little around you but there are 3 service companies so as long as you stay away from the brands running the proprietary parts scam you should be fine.

    there is apparently a factory direct sales office near you they might be able to help.

    Factory Direct sals
    Master
    888-315-7727
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    51 Railroad Ave, Cheshire, CT 06410
    View in Google Maps

  326. Reply
    admin March 30, 2019 at 9:11 am

    Coast does it all right on paper but plagued by quality control issues, I’ve spoken to dealers and they report the same, also spoke to the factory and they insist they have fixed the issues.

  327. Reply
    admin March 28, 2019 at 9:06 am

    Wow, 2 requests on a row for a small distributor… if I was a cynic I would say I’m getting shopped πŸ™‚ I can hot you up with good direct pricing if that s the route you wanna go. I have several good service guys in and around Montreal listed with the site.

    Hit Theresa up on this number she can help you.

    Hot Tub Universe
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    3 Holland Rd, Fletchers Lake, NS B2T 1J3, Canada
    http://www.hottubuniverse.com
    +1 902-576-5115
    4.8View in Google Maps

  328. Reply
    admin March 28, 2019 at 8:58 am

    Hey Frank. they are a distributor but they don’t have a showroom or anything.

    I can get you direct pricing in Montreal. Ill hit you up on email.

  329. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    Hey Franck

    Sp is not a master dealer anymore, they will have to buy that from me πŸ™‚ they do this then try and upgrade you to a “better line” for free.

    i like the 8,2 better… more pumps don’t make a better performing tub. https://hottubuniversity.com/small-pumps-large-pumps/

    email me chris@hottubunioversity.com

    tell me the prices you got quoted

  330. Reply
    admin March 28, 2019 at 8:25 am

    Hey Ronald

    Not too often I get a guy in my back yard πŸ™‚ it’s funny I get about 100,000 hot tub buyers from around the world coming to me for advice but I only just started to get good google rankings in my area πŸ™‚

    I have about 200 customers in the Moncton area and a few in St Stephen and saint john.

    The Dynasty I am not a fan of at all… see this review.

    The strong is the review that kicked off this whole thing πŸ™‚ see it here:

  331. Reply
    admin March 28, 2019 at 8:20 am

    The tropic seas for sure. Both models are similar for performance, they use the same control and heating systems and both use good OEM parts, both glue and clamp the plumbing and use good insulation systems but the Artesian has a hand-rolled fiberglass self-supporting shell with a vinyl ester resin core… awesome!! the BF uses a cheaper pedestal supported ABS plastic shell.

    If you want a good comparison for the Kona look at these guys:

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513

  332. Reply
    admin March 28, 2019 at 8:12 am

    Hey Nick

    The skirting is mainly aesthetics they are both well made durable products.

    The UV is better than the old salt systems, or other onboard systems but my argument is always that none of the onboard systems are as good as the aftermarket stuff… That tub comes standard with eh ion filter and ozone.. Go to spa Marvel and you will be lower chem and easier to manage water.

    WiFi is plug and play.

    Nick if a company has routine upgrades for their controllers its because they are making a shitty proprietary part that is not working and needs patches πŸ™‚ this is very simple from a control standpoint and its why I insist on Balboa contriols, all the top tubs use them and they are reliable and easy.

    All spas get some air from the control area, most modern tubs are pretty well sealed against vermin intrusion.

    We use patio stones with a 4″ tamped crusher dust base… you don’t get freeze-thaw cycles under a hot tub so you don’t get heaving… concrete would be overkill and 4″ would be fine but make sure it is level… sounds like a dumb statement but most concrete is poured with a grade to allow water to run off… not good for a hot tub πŸ™‚

  333. Reply
    admin March 28, 2019 at 8:03 am

    Hey Richard.

    Bullfrog is just out of my top group mainly because of the cheap plastic shell, nothing beats a good vinyl ester resin cored hand rolled self-supporting fiberglass shell… They are expensive but last forever.

    hit Adam up at Atlanta spa and leisure these guys do a great job, they carry American whirlpool Maxx and vita that I do not recommend and Master that I do recomend.

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    5.0View in Google Maps

  334. Reply
    admin March 28, 2019 at 7:56 am

    yep ill email you some stuff

  335. Reply
    admin March 28, 2019 at 7:52 am

    Hi Linda

    Round is tough for sure, they don’t make them much because the footwell space gets so limited they are very cramped hot tubs.

    Definitely the Nordic of those two brands. Sundance recently was acquired by the same corporate mess that bought jacuzzi, hydro pool, D1 etc, these types of companies have a great corporate business model for profit but overpriced mid-grade products full of proprietary parts in a lot of cases…

    The Nordic is just well-built reliable reasonably well insulated and has a good reliable readily available parts list.

  336. Reply
    admin March 27, 2019 at 1:40 pm

    The nearest dealer I can find is Guelph. on some brands that’s ok but on Artesian they have zero customers direct support so you really need a dealer or other resource to help you through. and I suspect you will not get one for that money. They come from Las Vegas.

  337. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 10:22 am

    Hey Brandon

    Price wise they should be similar. on paper, both are built the same. I have not torn a Coast apart or toured the factory. I have done both on Master, artesian, cal and a few others. Unless I see it all first hand it’s hard to say for sure and Coast has loads of bad internet press.

    The curve is a mixed bag…. these trendy looking tubs really date your purchase, the style is just that a current style and will go out of fashion and look dated… I always thing style and fashion are for short term purchases… cover is also a pain to get on and off and a lot more expensive.

    try these guys as well

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    2.9View in Google Maps

  338. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 10:16 am

    Hey Jeff

    it’s only worth it if massage is your goal… I mean its a nice spa regardless but what your paying the extra for is high-end massage.. so if that important to you then yes. its a good price anything under 10k is great.

  339. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 10:14 am

    Hey man

    they are all pretty good but every year you can find an instance on almost any brand where a critter got in, it’s usually not that big of a deal. Typically its mice you worry about they are the only ones small enough to sometimes get in. there are some tricks… tuck some steel wool in any opening you think might be an issue mice hate it and won’t go through it. but honestly, most spas are pretty tight.

  340. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 10:11 am

    Both Can be used and the spa can be ordered without a circ pump.

  341. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 10:10 am

    thanks, Paul I’ll email you over some info. this sheet will take into account the eco pure filter and the chems and give you an easy solution.

    You can buy the spa marvel here: the rest of the chems any local spa shop will have.

  342. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 10:08 am

    Yeah good price doesn’t get any better it should be ~~$10k ish

  343. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 10:07 am

    Hey Tom.

    I would rank those brands like this for build quality: the price on the Coast sounds solid man.

    Coast
    Marquis
    Bullfrog
    Jacuzzi

    there is also an artesian dealer near Placentia and a beachcomber dealer near Escondito and you have like a million service guys around you.

  344. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 10:02 am

    Hey Robert.

    You don’t have any of my number ones near you. I have a beachcomber dealer, great build but mid-performance And a Marquis dealer but after the one I just reviewed I’m still on the fence about recommending them.

    You do however have 5 independent hot tub service companies around you registered with us, And I have deals I can get you through retailers around your area. It’s a good solution when you have a bunch of service companies around.

  345. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 9:56 am

    Hey Mike

    Coast is out of Vancouver and on paper they build right but I have not seen the factory and the internet is full of complaints about quality control, also spoke to 2 ex-dealers who reported QC issues. also, these goofy shapes are cool now but date your purchase and make your cover an expensive pain in the ass πŸ™‚

    You have one of my all-stars there hit them up and look at the Twilight spas and the LSX spas. You also have an Artesian dealer in Sheffield.

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    2.9View in Google

  346. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 8:30 am

    Hey Steve.

    Never heard of them man, they have to be a tiny local guy and I love local but on this product, it’s usually a bad thing… These little guys don’t do enough volume to be able to innovate or even to adopt innovation when it comes down the pipe…

    I cannot find anything on what they build, type of shell, insulation etc etc. sorry man… is it cheap prices?

  347. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 7:27 am

    Hey Rich

    For the swim spa use Aqua finesse, for the hot tub either aqua finesse or spa marvel.

    ill send you start up details.

  348. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 7:23 am

    Hey Matt

    the price is reasonable but don’t order the circ pump or the Master Pur… just use spa marvel, its great, easy, lower chem, easier to manage water and cheaper πŸ˜‰ you might even twist his are for the wifi free but to be fair its a good price on that spa.

  349. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 7:20 am

    The brands are well built and really a lot fo the choice comes down to the pricing and what you like. for 4 people the Getaway Ocos Rios or the Nordic Retreat are great inexpensive options.

  350. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 7:16 am

    Hey, Roger, there is a Master dealer right beside you and I have about 5 service companies that specialize in hot tub service all within your area, you should be fine.

    Check these guys out…

    Fraser Valley Hot Tubs
    Master Dealer
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    32912 Mission Way unit 10, Mission, BC V2V 6E4, Canada
    http://www.fraservalleyhottubs.com
    +1 604-618-4198
    View in Google Maps

  351. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 7:13 am

    Clearwater is middle of the road, Just the insulation is enough to make me run for the hills. there are no shortcuts or miracles… it’s crazy… we would never have this conversation in a regulated industry like the home building industry because we have codes to adhere to, these radiant barriers and batton type insulation systems used in hot tubs would never, ever, qualify anywhere in the northern hemisphere for home building so why should it be good enough for your hot tub which has a much higher heat loss due to the larger temperature difference? You want R-value!!! full foam Ivcynene if possible. It also uses a less expensive cradle supported shell.

    Go see my buddy Griff, I lived near you for 2 years Griffs a pal and does it right πŸ™‚

    Master spa Toronto
    Griffin Ryan
    griffryan@hotmail.com
    1 (416) 779-0563

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1535 Meyerside Dr #16, Mississauga, ON L5T 1M9, Canada
    View in Google Maps

    Or you could look at international pool in Markham they do Coast which is better between the two.

    Go Leafs Go!!

  352. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 7:07 am

    Not a bad option, a simple tub, a good price, and a good manufacturer.

  353. Reply
    admin March 26, 2019 at 7:04 am

    Hey dude

    Tell me the brand and I can tell you a lot more, tell me the zip and I can identify resources in the area.

    No issues with putting it in ground flush with the deck as long as you do it right, do it wrong and its a shit show.

    The issue with The pool built ones is they are crap for comfort and massage, but if it’s just a social thing then it’s ok… But the more expensive way is actually to buy a good tub and build it in properly allowing for access.

    I can consult with your builder I have a consultation service that will help you buy the right tub and work with your builder to ensure its done right.

  354. Reply
    admin March 25, 2019 at 1:54 pm

    Hi Michael.

    no, you will never notice them, you weigh like 15 lbs in the water, I’ve been in hundreds of spas with these lights lenses and never noticed nor ever had anyone mention it.

  355. Reply
    admin March 25, 2019 at 1:53 pm

    Holy shit dude! I’m sorry for your misfortune, great that you all got out safely!

    go see the guys below see the Nordic spa. or the getaway spa

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  356. Reply
    admin March 25, 2019 at 9:58 am

    Yep and It’s not a good one… I looked at a Vita and Maxx in March last year, thin cradle supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing and a cheap insulation system that would never meet code in a cold climate for a house…

    Casual pool and spa sell Nordic that would be a better choice from a build quality standpoint Or primo spas sells Master one of my top rated brands.

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    3.5View in Google Maps

  357. Reply
    admin March 25, 2019 at 9:56 am

    Hey Norean

    I would order it without I do not like low flow circ pumps and the UV system is one of the best onboard systems but the reason I don’t sell it is things like spa marvel are better. you don’t need any of the upgraded systems with it. And they aren’t throwing it in… It cost them $500 or so for that system, they have just worked it into the price πŸ™‚

    and buy your spa marvel from here! money back guarantee and it helps support the site πŸ™‚

  358. Reply
    admin March 25, 2019 at 9:52 am

    They are the same build quality but opposite ends of the scale for performance, Clarity is a great tub with regular jetting like 90% of the tubs out there, Twilight is a therapy massage monster unlike any other tub out there that I have ever seen.

    is it worth it? depends what you want out of your hot tub, for me, it is because I’m broken and need the massage therapy…

  359. Reply
    admin March 25, 2019 at 9:49 am

    The Artesian is a known, I toured the factory and saw first hand what they are doing. The Catalina is an unknown. I have reached out several times but these folks never get back to me. The Aqualiving people sell dr Wellness which I’m not a fan of and the Catalina Spas.

    There are also two independent service guys in Knoxville so as long as you stay with a good parts list you can get anything…

  360. Reply
    admin March 24, 2019 at 7:14 pm

    Dude! Then run the hell away… see this

  361. Reply
    admin March 24, 2019 at 7:13 pm

    Hey dude

    I love Ottawa.

    Sunrise is from my home town Grimsby Ontario πŸ™‚

    the insulation is crap, the shell is cradle supported… That’s enough right there to say no. I got to say they should just focus on their roto mold line.. they build great rotomoulded spas under Dreamaker???? I think???

  362. Reply
    admin March 24, 2019 at 7:10 pm

    In its day it was a good tech, it took us from 3-5ppm of chlorine or bromine to around 1-3ppm and a nice steady release.

    The downsides were many, unreliable, hard to balance water, highly corrosive to decks, the tub, concrete etc, expensive because of anode replacement etc…

    There are a lot of better technologies available on hot tubs and even better one’s aftermarket.

  363. Reply
    admin March 24, 2019 at 7:07 pm

    Nope

    its changes with them a lot last time I looked it was Gecko, thin shell, crap insulation I heard they got bought out but can’t remember for sure, dude historically it’s not a brand I would consider and I doubt anything dramatic enough to make me change my mind has happened πŸ™‚

    There were a bunch dropped in my local market s a few years back by a dump and run show and we have been servicing/replacing them every year…

  364. Reply
    admin March 24, 2019 at 7:04 pm

    Hye Jeff

    I reached out to Catalina a few days ago for the second time… they are a small regional outfit, they obviously don’t monitor the internet πŸ™‚

    I’ll try again I wanted to drop by their factory in TN on the way back home, I’m in Florida chaperoning a bunch of 15-year-olds for spring training.

    On paper, they seem decent but man until you see the factory and you never know… I can walk into a factory and see right away what issues they are having iv’e toured and helped set up a few in my day πŸ™‚

  365. Reply
    admin March 23, 2019 at 11:24 am

    On paper good, still plagued with bad reviews, unsure… They seem to want to do good they have been proactive with sending us info and updates, I looked the tub over quickly in Vegas and it looks good but They need to send me a hot tub so I can tear it apart and do a proper review…

    It’s funny part of my criteria on how on the ball a manufacturer is on the communication and follow up end of their business is now how proactive they are getting and keeping in touch with me πŸ™‚ let’s face it if a Guy like me who heavily influences where a billion dollars in hot tubs go every year is not a priority for you as a manufacturer then you are either asleep at the wheel or hiding under a rock and hoping I don’t focus on you too closely πŸ™‚

  366. Reply
    admin March 23, 2019 at 10:41 am

    Hi Amber

    the problem with all 100v plug in tubs is exactly that there simply is not enough available power to keep up with the heat loss…

    yes, it is easily solved by hard wiring it. and will remedy you problem.

  367. Reply
    admin March 23, 2019 at 10:20 am

    Hey David

    I have had nothing but good results with them, I have sent a lot of customers their way and never had pushback from anyone.

    if you ever did have an issue hit me up, because of the massive influence I have in the Hot Tub world (almost half the buyers of hot tubs spend almost an hour with me before they spend an estimated Billion dollars) dealers and factories tend to take care of issues if I get involved πŸ™‚ but to be honest I have never had an issue from these guys and I bet I have sent them 50 customers at least.

  368. Reply
    admin March 23, 2019 at 9:54 am

    Hey Paul

    All tubs do good Hydrotherapy (hot water therapy) but for massage therapy, you need to look for the big jets not the number of jets πŸ™‚ read this on what makes a good therapeutic massage spa.

    Personally, I sit in a Twilight spa every day, for long term muscle tension relief it rocks.

    Go see these boys.. they do a great job.

    Master Spas of Southern WI
    2242 W Bluemound Road Suite A, Waukesha, WI, 53186
    Phone 414-607-8827
    Fax :414-607-8826
    Email kwhueff@gmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2242 W Bluemound Rd Suite A, Waukesha, WI 53186
    masterspaswi.com
    +1 414-607-8827

    Russo’s pool in Chicago and patio pleasures in Madison sells marquis but you can tell they are more a pool shop because they carry a bizarre mix of brands… These guys are about dumping anything onto the market they will likely try and tell you the other brands (high-profit big marketing brands) are better (like Caldera and D1 Yikes!!! stay away!) I also had a less than stellar Marquis spa I got ahold of recently the quality control was abysmal, its made me seriously reconsider recommending them.

  369. Reply
    admin March 22, 2019 at 8:48 am

    Catalina seems to do a decent job but I’ve not seen one first hand.

  370. Reply
    admin March 22, 2019 at 8:36 am

    Hi Aiden

    It is not standard with a circ pump. A circ pump is an option. They likely have a circ pump in stock and want to move it. I would not order a circ pump…

  371. Reply
    admin March 22, 2019 at 8:33 am

    i emailed the manufacturer and they sent me a pdf ill email it to you

  372. Reply
    admin March 22, 2019 at 8:26 am

    Hey Jon

    The Marquis and Master I highly recommend, the Master slightly over the Marquis because of a few factors. while both spas are built with the same great components, and manufacturing techniques master has a broader range in the massage therapy spas like the Twilights and the MPL’s and they have a customer direct support network that Marquis does not have and frankly I was disappointed in the Marquis that I got my hands on for a review the quality control was crap frankly…

    Jacuzzi and Sundance are both owned by the same equity investment group and I personally do not like either… They are great corporate business models for profit but in my opinion, they are great marketing companies as opposed to great hot tubs. I am especially disdainful of proprietary parts, this scam is what wrecked the appliance industry…

    Dealer wise the one I personally know and have met and spent time with is these guys:

    Above & Beyond
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    203 Armour Rd, Kansas City, MO 64116
    aboveandbeyondkc.com
    +1 816-421-4011
    3.9View in Google Maps

  373. Reply
    admin March 22, 2019 at 8:18 am

    ill email you a spec sheet.

    I find if you hit your calcium around 150 then hit the alkalinity high (to almost the 180 mark) then adjusting your ph into the middle or lower end of ok (6.8-7) everything stays very stable and you get good clarity and no foam.

    chlorine is a tricky one, you need to follow your state or provincial recommendations even if they are 20 years out of date and myopic as hell πŸ™‚ I personally run my chlorine at .5ppm and have zero issues but again I always recommend you listen and adhere to the advice of the bureaucrats!!!

  374. Reply
    admin March 22, 2019 at 8:18 am

    ill email you a spec sheet.

    I find if you hit your calcium around 150 then hit the alkalinity high (to almost the 180 mark) then adjusting your ph into the middle or lower end of ok (6.8-7) everything stays very stable and you get good clarity and no faom.

    chlorine is a tricky one, you need to follow your state or provincial recommendations even if they are 20 years out of date and myopic as hell πŸ™‚ I personally run my chlorine at .5ppm and have zero issues but again I always recommend you listen and adhere to the advice of the bureaucrats!!!

  375. Reply
    admin March 20, 2019 at 11:31 am

    So that tub uses a low flow circulation system, the chem reduction systems work better with a higher flow rate.

    I would get spa marvel, get it here if you don’t like it ill refund it, its the easiest lowest chem option out there.

    ill email you the tip sheet.

  376. Reply
    admin March 20, 2019 at 10:23 am

    It’s a decent price, again it’s hard to say regional differences can affect it a lot.

  377. Reply
    admin March 20, 2019 at 10:22 am

    first off what tub is it and what options if any did you order it with?

  378. Reply
    admin March 20, 2019 at 10:21 am

    Hi Guys

    The TS is def a lot better from a therapy massage standpoint. while HL competes nicely with nmost top end massage spas the TS is really in a very exclusive class for Massage. A lot more of the expensive hi-low therapy massage jets, including the 3.5″ neck jets… most have the little 1.5″ low flows here and it makes a massive difference, and the monster jets with the flow control are insane for lower back feet, legs etc.

  379. Reply
    admin March 20, 2019 at 10:16 am

    Hi Natalie

    first off I am trialing a buyers service…. give us the price we will call the dealer and get you a better price and you pay us 20% of what we save you… It’s a no brainer if we don’t save you money you don’t pay. I only ask that we deal 100% honestly, I like to live above board and strive to be 100% honest in my dealings so give me the real prices πŸ™‚ just email me the info and my team will get to work. remember to include all options, upgrades etc.

    From a strictly cold weather insulation standpoint I rank them like this:

    Tier 1

    BullFrog
    Coast
    Beachcomber (non-hybrid)

    Tier 2

    Beachcomber (hybrid)
    Arctic
    American Whirlpool
    Vita
    Tier 3

    Hydropool

    From a build quality standpoint:

    Tier 1

    Coast
    Beachcomber (non-hybrid)
    Beachcomber (hybrid)

    Tier 2

    BullFrog
    American Whirlpool
    Vita
    Hydropool
    Arctic

  380. Reply
    admin March 20, 2019 at 10:07 am

    Hey Darren

    The Premium leisure spas were out of Florida and were mid-end but not the nightmare stuff. the shell was a cradle supported but is a fiberglass acrylic, the parts were good and the insulation was bad.

  381. Reply
    admin March 20, 2019 at 8:57 am

    First off most spas are not bought from retailers in your area… I can tell because I only have 7 or 8 retailers in a pop base that should have 20 and I have 20 independent hot tub service companies listed that specialize in just fixing hot tubs there.

    This tells me that there are a lot of hot tubs being sold at event sales, fairs, and home shows, we see this in areas where the propriety values are too high and the cost of running a retail location is driving prices too high, then people start buying out of market and then we see the retailers closing and the independent service companies taking over.

    Its a good scenario for the end user… as long as you stay away from brands with goofy proprietary parts, and a good build standard you can get the best of both worlds… Good prices and great service… these independent service companies do as good or better of a job than retailers because retailers primary focus is selling and all the service guys to is fix spas… It’s their only focus.

    If you want to buy local the number one would be Artesian sold at Coastal spa and patio, second would be more entry-level Nordic sold by Spa Tek.

  382. Reply
    admin March 20, 2019 at 7:51 am

    2 things.

    first off make sure they pour the pad level… this may seem like a no brainer but the default is to pour it with a tilt or “grade” to let the rain water runoff… great for a patio, crap for a hot tub πŸ™‚

    also get the dealer to send you the line drawing for electrical, it will show you where the electrical can come up under the tub, have the concrete guy put in an inch and a half conduit from the edge of the pad to where it comes up under the pad and you won’t see the wiring…

  383. Reply
    admin March 18, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    No use ready mode always… I never touch the modes if I go away for a long time i turn the temp down.

  384. Reply
    admin March 18, 2019 at 12:47 pm

    Hey Andrew.

    The gov health authority says no so its what I have to say πŸ™‚

    the reality is I run my display spas and my personal spas at .5ppm with the spa marvel, Ion filter, combo.

  385. Reply
    kimberly Deveau March 18, 2019 at 12:43 pm

    Hey Irv

    Beachcomber is a well built well-insulated spa, Performance wise they top out at the mid-end and do not really do any hi-end therapy massage models but they are as good as it gets for parts, insulation, and general build quality.

    Normally I would warn you away from the Hybrid models, its old outdated tech but you won’t care in a warm climate like Texas πŸ™‚

    Here is a review.

    For the money, though it’s expensive, you could get a spa with the same build quality, insulation and way better performance from these guys for similar money…

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    3.5View in Google Maps

  386. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 8:31 am

    My Wife was born in Bloomington πŸ™‚

    Dude the Marquis is a far better-built unit, I’m not a fan of the Vector line but and had some quality control issues on the one I reviewed but Hot Springs is one of these big corporate guys that drove me to make this site πŸ™‚ Theses guys using proprietary parts and selling these mid-grade spas at over inflated prices all based on massive branding and marketing budgets are the worst options. And don’t buy any of the onboard miracle chem reduction systems, that’s ACE system is MPS (hard on some types of plastics) saltwater (20-year-old tech that is re-emerging as a new tech), its not that it is bad but there is way better stuff that not only reduces chemical usage too much lower levels but also assists in stabilizing the water which makes its way easier to balance and keeps the water perform for 2-3 times as long. and Circ pumps… There are 2 kinds of hot tub makers…. Great tubs and great spin this, in my opinion, is a prime example of the latter

  387. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 8:20 am

    Hi Kevin

    All filters filter really well.

    People love the sound of a β€œpressure filter” housing, heck it’s filtered under pressure! It must be good! The reality is almost all of the industry has moved away from this filtration system and moved on to β€œsuction side” filtration.

    There is one big difference between the two systems: On older β€œpressure filter” systems the water is filtered on the pressure side of the pump and on suction side filtration it is filtered on the suction side of the pump! That means that on the pressure filter system the water goes through the pumps and through the equipment before it gets filtered!!! The accumulation of debris in the pumps and in the heater elements can cause damage and it just makes sense to filter that water prior to it going through the equipment! That is exactly why 95% of the industry abandoned these old pressure side filters decades ago and moved to suction side filtration, it filters the exact same amount of water but it does it before the debris goes through the heater and the pump.

    Another pitch they use is that when you remove the filter the debris from the filter won’t fall into your hot tub water. Its silly because the debris falls into the filter housing and when you put the clean filter in and turn it on half of that debris gets blown into the tub anyway πŸ™‚ not that it matters, the little bit of debris that falls into a hot tub or the filter canister when changing the filters gets re-trapped in a few minutes…

    The next bit of misleading craziness is that they say that it is 100% filtration! This is just using a buzzword to fool you… How all filter systems really work is the water goes through a filter which cleans all the debris out of the water, then that water gets dumped back into the tub so right away it gets mixed into the unfiltered water… over time more and more water is filtered and after a few hours, there is no debris left. The only way to really have 100% filtration is to pump the water through a filter into another container, then once it is all filtered you can put it back into the hot tub… This is simply dishonest and they should not be claiming it is 100% filtration it is marketing Spin all of it…

  388. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 8:16 am

    Hey Brandon.

    The only one even on my tier two list would be the Bullfrog, PDC, Viking are lower end units and the other three are the mid-grade stuff with all the money spent on marketing and branding instead of the hot tub πŸ™‚ the proprietary parts on the Hot Springs and Jacuzzi would have me running for this hills, this is the same corporate profit strategy that destroyed the appliance industry.

    I would check out these guys, they sell Master which in my opinion is right in the sweet spot, good pricing, good build and a solid OEM parts list.

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    2.9View in Google Maps

  389. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 8:05 am

    Hi Brian

    Nothing in Louisville, but loads of independent service guys there which tells me the local guys aren’t doing a great job on the service side and or a lot of guys are buying from out of the area… In some areas, it’s the cost of real estate like California, NY etc But when I see this in an area of reasonable property values and cost of doing business its usually crap local dealer service.

    Bullfrog at Watsons is the best but it suffers from a few issues.

    In these areas with good independent service networks (I have 6 registered with the site) as long as you have a dealer with good communication skills if you stick to a good brand with good standard parts you should have no issues.

  390. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 7:48 am

    the only issue I have with hem is the ABS shell. these shells were all the rage in the 80’s they were supposed to be cheap and super strong but the failure rates were high and they never did live up to the hype, most guys moved away from them some stayed the course (mainly because of the cost of doing hand-rolled glass shells) and in areas where they have big environmental restrictions on spraying glass that cost gets even higher because of the VOC capture systems required. these guys now use rigidities and props and pedestal supports to keep the shells from breaking but they are just nowhere near as good. They also have a healthy dose of pseudoscience πŸ™‚ here is a review.

  391. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 7:42 am

    Hey Andrew.

    Keep it simple πŸ™‚

    ill email you my tip sheet but in general reduce soap on the tub, rinse off well before you get out of the shower esp kids! party naked (or at least do not wash your suits with soap or rinse super well after they get out of the washing machine. in the summer use a spa ball to collect lotions and sunscreen. don’t micromanage your water… once a week check and balance.

  392. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 7:37 am

    Im not a fan of Circ pumps, they have a high failure rate, low circulation levels, and cost more over the long run. read this

  393. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 7:34 am

    Hey Ulf.

    No, Hot Springs is not anywhere near the same class just like you said these guys spend too much on branding and advertising, the tub really is mid-grade build quality in my opinion and suffers from the things I warn against including a proprietary parts list which in my opinion is a critical factor and one that should be avoided at all costs.

  394. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 7:29 am

    Hey Craig.

    I could not agree more, the only tubs that do this, unfortunately, are the cheap ones fighting to be the cheapest and they are just never a good buy. The problem is like cars there are vast differences in production costs depending on the size of the factory (volume discounts) distance from the factory, the parts and manufacturing techniques, etc etc. Vast differences in the cost of doing business by region and everyone wants a deal… Within a given region I could sell a two pump 40 jets spa from $5995 up to $12995 all at the same margin.

    TThere is no easy solution but I can tell you this… the full retail price quoted is almost always a pie in the sky price that no one really sells at, I would say its typically 20-40% higher. but here is the problem… everyone will claim to be the best and the really expensive spas that are really mid grade with the big marketing and branding are way-way overpriced and the crap (70% of the brands?) are pretending they are super well made and again are way-way overpriced, they should be priced like the cheap mass merchant stuff. The sweet spot is the well-made brands that are not blowing their brains out on marketing. This is where everyone should be buying the reason for my 5 important things list is these are the things that cost money on the actual tub (excluding the bullshit you don’t wanna pay for like massive branding and advertising budgets) follow these guidelines, that only price compare spas that at least meet these criteria and it gets really simple.

    There is no good answer that will cover all areas and all brands. you need to look at the brand, know their costs to build, look at the area, know their costs of doing business… its too complex which is why almost 5000 people a year get me to help them buy a spa in their local market πŸ™‚

  395. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 7:06 am

    Happy hot tubbing.

    You need to try the Spa Marvel system… it will make water care so easy, try it if you don’t like it Ill 100% refund it.

    https://hottubuniversity.com/enzymes/

  396. Reply
    admin March 17, 2019 at 7:05 am

    Hi Tim

    I don’t know that product. sorry! πŸ™

  397. Reply
    admin March 15, 2019 at 1:24 pm

    Hey Ronald

    I’ve been avoiding this one because I just don’t have a lot of good options for you I went through the whole area and just Nada…

    the only resource I have is down in San Antonio but I know Vince sells all over the state, hit him up and see if he has service near you

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    28451 Interstate 10 West Frontage Road #1, Boerne, TX 78006
    http://www.primoshottubs.com
    +1 830-331-5400
    4.6View in Google Maps

    There is also a Marquis dealer in Fort worth but man the quality control on that one I got my hands on was not good. There is also an Artesian dealer in Austin.

  398. Reply
    admin March 15, 2019 at 1:17 pm

    Hey Miguel

    Man, these guys using 80’s style hi pressure must think people are stupid :-)… lol but when yer whole brand is based around spin, marketing and fooling people trying to get mad money for a mid-grade product I guess its what you have to do πŸ™‚

    I have a great guy in long island call and see if they have service in your area

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110 Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza, Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727

    you also have an Artesian dealer near Newbridge but I dont know them

  399. Reply
    admin March 15, 2019 at 1:12 pm

    Hey Malcomb

    It’s a well-built spa but man go swim in it then go swim in the H2X…

    Pricing should be similar, water flow will be like 40% higher (make sure you swim with no air mixed into the swim jets)

    they have one running here:

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry

  400. Reply
    admin March 15, 2019 at 1:09 pm

    Hey Bob

    That Strong spa has a thin cradle supported shell, I guess the foam supports finally gave out πŸ™‚

    it’s also such a gimmick, little 48 frame motors with so many jets… it looks good but performance wise its a joke. you are totally right it’s all about the jetting but not how many jets.

    I have an all-star not too far away check out my buddy Dave.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry

    There is also an Artesian dealer over near Newburg and a Coast and artesian dealer down near Edison but I don’t know the dealer.

  401. Reply
    admin March 15, 2019 at 1:09 pm

    Hey Bob

    That Strong spa has a thin cradle supported shell, I guess the foam supports finally gave out πŸ™‚

    it’s also such a gimmick, little 48 frame motors with so many jets… it looks good but performance wise its a joke. you are totally right it’s all about the jetting but not how many jets.

    I have an all-star not too far away check out my buddy Dave.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry

    There is also an Artesian dealer over near newburg and a Coast and artesian dealer down near Edison but I dont know the dealer.

  402. Reply
    admin March 15, 2019 at 1:04 pm

    Hey Shelly!

    Nope, the Artesian uses a good OEM parts list and build to a good standard. I don’t know about the dealer they have not reached out to me which is weird.. a lot of dealers for brands I like keep in regular contact and I always know they are the ones on the ball… When I guy like me has almost half the buyers in the world coming to him for advice and you sell hot tubs yer crazy not to be proactive. The issue with Artesian is you need a good dealer because they offer no customer direct support…

    I have a good guy not far from you check them out as well, basically the same build but they do have a higher end therapy massage line and they have dealer and factory support and I know the dealer, he is solid.

    Hice’s Pool Spa & Patio
    Status: HTU Approved
    Brands: Master, H2x, Clarity, Twilight

    These guys have a great line of spas and good service.

    Owner: Gerald
    Dealers #1 931-455-2500

  403. Reply
    admin March 15, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    Hi Scott and sorry for the delay, been a busy week, I’m chaperoning 8 15-year-olds for spring training in Florida, run off my feet πŸ™‚

    Man Montreal is the only things decent around you there is CK spas selling Coast and marquis would also be you only other solid brand around you, sorry man not much help , I dont even have any service guys registered around you

  404. Reply
    admin March 15, 2019 at 12:06 pm

    I would not have the Arctic on my short list, great shell, and great branding and marketing, decent performance but the rest is mid to low end. Proprietary parts are a big scam, its what wrecked the appliance industry and we all know how that turned out, no clamps on the plumbing and an insulation system that is more hot air than reality and would never meet code for a house…

    The Master and Artesian are very comparable, built very similarly. The Twilight is above all of them but on the rest of the lines, they are very close. The one advantage to Master is a robust back end factory support program, so if your dealer does not toe the line you have some fallback but Artesian does not have any direct to customer support so you really need a good reliable dealer who has been in hot tubs for a long time with the same brand.

  405. Reply
    admin March 14, 2019 at 3:45 pm

    it’s one of the few.

    I sent you an email did you get it?

    if not email me at chris@hottubuniversity.com

  406. Reply
    admin March 14, 2019 at 3:43 pm

    The forums and most rating sites are fake reviews and outright lies have the time πŸ™‚ the discussion forums are the worst all it is is a bunch of hot tub sales guys and store owners promoting their products check out this article.

  407. Reply
    admin March 14, 2019 at 3:34 pm

    Hey Day

    Jacuzzi was bought by a big equity investment company and I would not touch it with a 10-foot pole… They spend too much on brand awareness fancy marketing and spin and not enough on just building a great hot tub. They also use proprietary parts this is what wrecked the appliance industry and legislation in Europe is banning this scam but here in the good ole USA, it’s endemic.

    La is a mess. its too expensive to do business so most of the retailers are gone the only ones left are selling these big branded mid grade spas at crazy high prices… all supported with bullshit advertising, branding and spin… its a mess.

    the only local guy I would look at is the Artesian spas from these guys but your gonna pay through the nose. The other option is LA has tons and tons of independent service companies because most people are buying from out of state to save money.

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Artesian, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404

  408. Reply
    admin March 14, 2019 at 3:27 pm

    Hey Aeron

    for low chem don’t worry about the hot tub go to an enzyme system with an Ion filter like eco pure or frog or nature2 the Masters and Artesians use the ion standard I think. Buy the enzyme from me πŸ™‚ I have great prices and money back guarantee!

    for effecency its all about R value… forget crazy hot tub bullshit, look at the industries that are regulated like home building… see this video:

    go see these guys!

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
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    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    3.9View in Google Maps

  409. Reply
    admin March 14, 2019 at 3:03 pm

    Hey Kaycee

    It’s a nightmare industry so much bullshit πŸ™‚

    The evolution spa is made by strong spas see this video

    Home Depot is the same these mass merchants are all selling junk, thin cradle supported shells, gimmicky insulation systems.. they are what they area.. cheap spas at cheap prices.

    Go see Todd in Sacramento, bot of a trek but worth it, he sells the Getaway and the Nordic spas, the getaway is a bit better but both are good solid spas.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
    Remove
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    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  410. Reply
    admin March 14, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    Hi Shelly

    No the artesian and the Master are very similar in build quality and parts. Both are great tubs, and typically priced similarly but the Twilight has a lot more of the expensive hi flow therapy jets … what models were you pricing out in the Artesian?

    The line that would compete with the Twilight would be the Elite and Island Elite lines but again a lot less of the good jets, most of the jets are the inexpensive low flow and mid flow jets they should be a grand or two less. The south seas and garden spas would be more like healthy living and clarity lines.

  411. Reply
    admin March 12, 2019 at 7:39 am

    Hey Jodi

    There are a few good options in Moncton, the Beachcomber is well built they top out on my top five for build quality but they are low end on my performance ratings, you also have a Coast dealer which is good on the build quality and better on the performance end but have a lot of complaints on build quality.

    Funny enough the biggest supplier of hot tubs in Moncton is these guys in Halifax, they install hundreds of hot tubs and swim spas and have service levels that beat the local guy’s hands down… I know them really well and guarantee you won’t be disappointed, they also are the biggest supplier on the east coast and sell warehouse direct, their pricing is solid and they have service teams all over the east coast.

    Hit Theresa up Theresa@hottubunivese.ca she is a crazy Newfie who will make sure you are taken care of and can supply references for your local area…

    Hot Tub Universe
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    3 Holland Rd, Fletchers Lake, NS B2T 1J3, Canada
    http://www.hottubuniverse.com
    +1 902-576-5115
    4.8View in Google Maps

  412. Reply
    chris wheatley March 12, 2019 at 7:31 am

    It’s funny you start by saying the Thermospas pitch wasn’t too high pressure but they secured a refundable deposit which is a high-pressure sals technique, they know damn well its hard for a customer to cancel, we feel obligated… the whole mission of the house call is to secure the refundable deposit πŸ™‚

    The whole massage thing is tricky. The spas that feel like they are doing the most are the ones with the little inexpensive jets they are low flow high pressure they really “feel” like they do a lot. from my 30 years in this professionally and personally having used a tub for decades and being a 50-year-old broken person with 6 major orthopedic operations under my belt and an old guy athlete who races competitively at the national level my experience is that what feels great and what makes a massive difference in my long term mobility are two entirely different things… read this:

    I’m also really not a fan of circ pumps or air pumps.

    With regards to the pumps most guys are running 56 frame 3-5 hp pumps but man I’m telling you its the jetting that you like, the little jets feel great but for long term mobility, I like the big high flow jets.

    check out these guys and look at the Twilight or the LSX the LSX has the advantage of one seat with the high flor therapy jets, it’s my favorite go-to seat, and lots of the little ones you like.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
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    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  413. Reply
    admin March 11, 2019 at 9:04 am

    They always claim they do not affect water quality but I always find that customers using them have a hard time with water balance a lot sooner than without.

  414. Reply
    admin March 11, 2019 at 9:01 am

    Hey John

    Not a real fan of the Brand to be Honest.

    There are 2 kinds of hot tub companies, the one group are buying up loads of companies, Jacuzzi is parts of an equity investment corp that now owns a dozen brands and these types of organizations are great at marketing, branding, advertising, and produce some fantastic stuff on that end, if you could soak in the brochure they would be awesome πŸ™‚ . The reality is from a product quality standpoint they are nowhere near the top stuff. They also use proprietary parts which are a big issue and as far as I am concerned they are the not a brand I would sell buy or recommend.

    Forget the spin and the bullshit, you want someone who is spending the money on the build instead of the spin… they need to be doing the 5 main things

    There is An Artesian deal on Staten Island, good brand but I also have a top guy that I literally have sent 20 or more customers to check them out they sell good brands, and have good back up.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
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    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110 Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza, Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727

  415. Reply
    admin March 9, 2019 at 1:25 pm

    hey Leslie.

    Tall people sometimes really like the ones with the molded contour seats, it’s weird because they have small footwells but tall people love them, the other option I just go for tons of footwell so they can stretch out in them.

    Go see the HL series for contoured seating and the Clarity for tons of room and the twilight for good amount of room and high-end massage. these guys sell them.

    Spas and More!
    Remove
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    12957 Gravois Rd, St. Louis, MO 63127
    spasandmorestl.com
    +1 314-843-7727
    3.1View in Google Maps

    As for Aspen right away the no-name electronic control system (make sure you get Balboa) and the high tech insulation from the 80’s πŸ™‚ that pitch about efficiency is wack, it’s like someone who knows nothing at all about heat retention, thermal drift, R-value wrote it πŸ™‚

    its what it appears to be a cheap spa. I assume its a cheap price?

  416. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    shit pricing in this industry is sketchy, part is what the market will take, part is the cost of doing business due to regional differences and part to volume and proximity to the factory and overhead considerations like locations… high-end retail locations can add a grand, low overhead warehouse locations are cheaper than even the big event sales… there are so many factors but you pricing seems low to mid…

  417. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 12:10 pm

    Hey Bryan

    You spell your name like my old man did πŸ™‚

    You are 100% right on the pressure… its all bullshit, if a guy can do a price he can do a price and all the pressure tactics like “its an end of line special” or “I got deal on a prepaid container” or ” the factory helps us with discounts at these events to offset our costs” all of it is bullshit… its a sales tactic called creating urgency… it closes deals πŸ™‚

    So the jet count is not as expensive as jets size and count… The big jets are the expensive ones… The Artesian then the Marquis but not vector 21, go to their other high-end line Vector 21 is gimmicky and the one I got was a shit show. Bullfrog not bad but the shell is not great, these ABS shells with he pedestal supports are nowhere near as good as hand-rolled glass… https://youtu.be/_T9DY6am_E0

    There is also a Coast guy in Washington but I don’t have any local dealers I know of in the area. tell one of these meatheads to get registered with us and if we can verify customer care levels Ill have one πŸ™‚

  418. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 11:53 am

    Hi Rafaael

    I’m with you man, this world is a mess, planned obsolescence, poor build quality and too much spin, bullshit and outright lies.

    You have a few decent brands around you Artesian, Coast or Beachcomber would all be good choices.

    My go-to guy is Griffin Ryan, he’s solid sells Master which is in my top group and takes good care of customers.

    Say hey to him for me πŸ™‚

    Master spa Toronto
    Griffin Ryan
    griffryan@hotmail.com
    1 (416) 779-0563

    Remove
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    1535 Meyerside Dr #16, Mississauga, ON L5T 1M9
    View in Google Maps

  419. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 11:49 am

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Artesian, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.
    Remove
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    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404
    4.4View in Google Maps

  420. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 9:32 am

    Hey Kevin

    glad I could help dude, no crystal ball or camera just 30 years in the game πŸ™‚

    The screws are aluminum or something we found them soft as fuck too… need a good non-worn bit and a good gun with good speed control… gentle πŸ™‚ the good news is they don’t rust and you won’t need to take them out often, get spares πŸ™‚

    Happy hot tubbing!!!

  421. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 9:32 am

    Hey Kevin

    glad I could help dude, no crystal ball or camera just 30 years in the game πŸ™‚

    The screws are aluminum or something we found them soft as fuck too… need a good non-worn bit and a good gun with good speed control… gentle πŸ™‚ the good news is they dont rust and you wont need to take them out often, get spares πŸ™‚

    Happy hot tubbing!!!

  422. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 9:07 am

    Hey Blake

    Yeah, I’m special all right… Need my head examined kind of special πŸ™‚

    Most spas have the ability to run in low current mode, basically, it shuts off the heater when you engage the second pump or in some cases the first pump as well.

    generally, hot tubs are excluded from the load calculation of your house, my rule of thumb is this on a 100amp service as long as you don’t have electric baseboard heating you are usually good, there are exceptions if you have lots of power hungry stuff but in general its a pretty safe rule.

  423. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 8:59 am

    hey Ann.

    the Master pur is good tech my argument is that things like aqua finesse and the like make it obsolete because they are better tech πŸ™‚

  424. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 8:57 am

    Hey Megan

    I really think these guys are one of the worst options for a hot tub. This Brand is owned by a big equity investment corporation that owns a lot fo these mid-grade overpriced heavily branded lines and in my opinion they are all about the things that make the world bad, mid-grade product quality, mid-grade proprietary parts that they will hold you to ransom for life, and way overpriced because of the slick marketing and advertising. They are a good profitable corporation so if you are a shareholder yay! but if you are an end user then there are way better spas with good parts that are easily sourced and competitively priced for less money. Honestly, it’s these guys and the other big corporate hot tub makers that made me start this blog! it’s all smoke and mirrors, they have more people ion discussion forums looking for help for broken hot tubs than anyone.

    There is a marquis dealer down in Sioux City and I have a great guy in Minneapolis, see if he has a service center there, he might be able to help you.

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
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    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.4View in Google Maps

  425. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 8:37 am

    Hey Spencer

    looks like no matter what you do your stuck with a dealer around 150km away.

    Once you are in this position yer basically buying from out of the market and the dealer is a phone call so you really need someone who specializes in long-distance deals… once you get outside the 100km mark trust me its tricky if you don’t know what the hell yer doing. You really need a good communicator someone with lots of knowledge because the reality is the best way to take care fo you is going to be with a local handyman or electrician and a guy on the phone that knows what the hell he or she is talking about.

    as for the brands the American Whirlpool I would not have on my short list at all.. its cheaply made with a cradel supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing and an insulation system that would never ever come even close to meeting code in Canada for a house so its nowhere near good enough for your swimmer that is gonna be hotter than your house so have an even higher heat transfer rate…

    The Coast is better to build, better insulation if you order the full foam package and they glue and clamp the plumbing.

  426. Reply
    admin March 8, 2019 at 8:25 am

    Hey Cassi

    Its one of my favorites for sure, the artesian will come close but the master beats it on a few points, and has better back up from the factory if your local dealer does not make the mark.

  427. Reply
    admin March 7, 2019 at 4:42 pm

    Hey Scott

    Both were in my top tier until I got a vector 21 for a review got to say I was not overly impressed, some big quality issues that I did not expect.

    I just spent a week with a dealer from Colorado, they have been 20 years in the game and have 4 stores, were actually working with them on a software package we are doing for service tracking.

    Aqua Spas
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    637 Ken Pratt Blvd, Longmont, CO 80501
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-827-3368
    3.8View in Google Maps

    There is also an Artesian dealer called Colorado Custom Spas

  428. Reply
    admin March 7, 2019 at 4:35 pm

    Hi Michael

    Man not much good news their dude, this end of Fla is funny its like LA… retail space is so expensive that guys buy from out fo market, I know because thee are hardly any retailers and the ones that are there are the mid-grade huge margin line with all the fancy marketing.. they are not great spas and use proprietary parts scam to nail you for life. I have nothing right there but…

    there are 3 independent service companies again a sign of people buying from out of the area, try these guys they likely have a deal with some of the local companies for service…

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
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    4260 Cleveland Ave, Fort Myers, FL 33901
    southeastspas.com
    +1 239-202-0225
    5.0View in Google Maps

  429. Reply
    admin March 7, 2019 at 4:27 pm

    Hey John

    PDC

    The first issue was even though they do a hand-rolled shell it looks like they only do a single layer and then adds pedestal supports to keep it from falling apart, these cradle supported shells are not nearly as good as a multilayer hand rolled self-supporting shell here is a video explainer on shells: https://youtu.be/_T9DY6am_E0

    They also use a Gecko pack and personally I won’t sell anything that does not have Balboa, they have some key patents that give them a massive technological advantage. The wood frame is well built but they absolutely should be using pressure treated for the bottom rail.

    The really big issue is the insulation… In PA the building code says R-20 or 25 is the minimum for a house insulation system you spa needs at least that and the styrofoam on that tub is about R-5 and the mylar around R3 for a total of R-8 this is just cheap and way underinsulated for a cold climate, this reflective foil technology was basically banned in any regulated industry in the 80’s and now is making a comeback in unregulated industries like the hot tub world… watch this video for an explainer on insulation. https://hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

    As for the artesian I like the brand but don’t know the dealer, weird most of the brands I like the dealers flock to me but these guys have never reached out…

  430. Reply
    admin March 7, 2019 at 4:23 pm

    Hey Shanna

    Don’t feel bad, they confuse it on purpose even if you are a brilliant person and spends tons of research time you still will be at the mercy of fantastic marketing and lots of pseudosciences:-)

    We have worked on a lot of these here there was one of those fly by night guys sold a pile here then closed up when the heat got too much and ran away to the other end of the country… they are what they are.. mid-grade, low-end insulation, cradel supported shell etc… same as 80% of the stuff out there… a bit fo good a bit of bad and a bit of ugly.

    In your market, the only one I would even consider would be the marquis at Professional Pool & Spa
    325 W 23rd St, Sioux City, IA 51104
    http://www.propoolsspas.com
    +1 712-258-1909

    The rest are either the overpriced big branded lines which are the worst options or mid-grade middle of the road stuff. Also, try the Guy In DesMoines he might have a local service guy there.

    wimming Pool Supply Co
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    3850 SE Capitol Cir, Grimes, IA 50111
    http://www.spspools-spas.com
    +1 515-986-3931
    4.1View in Google Maps

  431. Reply
    admin March 7, 2019 at 2:32 pm

    Hey John

    Not aware of the models but in general the Hydropool has some serious issue in my opinion, https://hottubuniversity.com/hydropool-hot-tub-review/

  432. Reply
    admin March 1, 2019 at 3:56 pm

    Not right now dude, the ones out there are pants.

    hang tight I have an app coming out that we developed that is going to make it easy.

    In the mean, times use Spa Marvel… it’s awesome and if you buy from me you help support the site, its the cheapest anywhere, and I give you my tip sheet πŸ™‚

    order it here

  433. Reply
    admin March 1, 2019 at 12:18 pm

    Hi Malcomb

    Tidal fit by far man but if yer doing water aerobics and want to work out against the flow of the water you really need to get into the 60″ deep models.

    I have literally been swimming in swim spas for 20 years and have had dozens of them the biggest factor for my enjoyment was the depth… It’s a massive difference.

    You should definitely look at the 60″ deep Therapool deep or the Trainer 13 or 15 deep If you get into a 60″ swimmer and then try a 51″ swimmer I guarantee you will buy the 60… such a better more usable product esp in the cold!

    check out these guys, they are a good bunch and do good service and good products.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU APPROVED RETAILER

    When you buy from a Hot Tub University approved retailer we will stand behind you if you ever need help.
    Ben and the guys at East Coast spas have helped out a ton of people coming to this site. They do it all, Great Spas, great price, good solid customer care and experience.

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
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    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 877-755-7727
    3.5View in Google Maps

  434. Reply
    admin February 28, 2019 at 9:56 am

    Hi Missy

    You could likely use Spa marvel with that unit, super low chem, easy to manage water. see it here:

    Seattle is a funny market, hardly any retailers and loads and loads if independant service centers, the truth is buying local costs a lot more esp with the high cost of doing business there so a lot of spas are coming from out of state.

    If you stick with a brand with good OEM parts and have a dealer with good communication and information then it can be a great way to buy, lower prices and as good or better support… the truth is great dealers have nothing ot do with proximity… as long as there are good service people in the area and Seattle has loads and loads and 2 super good ones i have used a lot out there.

    If ya wanted to buy local then id look at Black Pine Hot Tubs in Edmonds they carry Artesian which is a good solid reliable brand.

  435. Reply
    admin February 28, 2019 at 8:59 am

    Hi Ann

    Compacted level sand is a good base, if you are putting the tub right on that order the upgraded ABS bottom, or put patio stones down on the sand first, the Patio stones are a better option but either will work.

    Reliable means making sure they are doing the main things right, like clamping the plumbing lines to the jets and using a good OEM parts list with Balboa control and heating systems.

    Low chemical systems are again pretty easy, I use a combo of Ozone, Ion cartridge (spa frog, eco pure, nature 2) and an enzyme like spa marvel. with that set up I run my tubs at 0.5 ppm of chlorine which is drinking water levels. its the lowest chemical system, it’s easy to manage the water and it’s not expensive, I sell the spa marvel here: and it supports the site and has a 100% money back guarantee and I send you my special tip sheet πŸ™‚

    If you have a good lockable cover then you don’t need to worry about the controls as they are locked under the cover, but you could get a wifi module to monitor the spa they are inexpensive. A bar lock like this is best if you really want to secure it.

    I would go see the guys below, I know them and they sell good spas and take good care of customers and they have 2 location and you are right in the middle of both πŸ™‚

    Master Spas of Southern WI
    2242 W Bluemound Road Suite A, Waukesha, WI, 53186
    Phone 414-607-8827
    Fax :414-607-8826
    Email kwhueff@gmail.com
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    2242 W Bluemound Rd Suite A, Waukesha, WI 53186
    masterspaswi.com
    +1 414-607-8827
    4.6View in Google Maps

  436. Reply
    admin February 27, 2019 at 6:50 pm

    The price is good and there is a Spa medix location near you for service so likely not a bad play, great dealers are not about proximity, I know local dealers that suck and guys like me that can sell 2000 miles away and rock it… its about organization, communication, and timely information dissemination.

  437. Reply
    admin February 27, 2019 at 6:47 pm

    You have a Jacuzzi dealer and a Cal dealer near you. Personally, I would not touch the Jacuzzi with a ten-foot pole mid-grade, heavily branded and marketed and massively overpriced just the proprietary parts scam would have me running for the hills. The Cal is not much better, I toured the factory in Jan last year and was less than impressed.

    The good news is like most of California there are more service companies than retailers, I have 4 in your area and can get you a good level of service on any brand with a good parts list.

    hit Todd up in Sac, its a bit of a travel but he can likely help you.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
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    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  438. Reply
    admin February 27, 2019 at 6:41 pm

    Hey Scott

    Go see my Bud Jacquline.

    Tell her Chris says Hey!

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
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    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.2View in Google Maps

  439. Reply
    admin February 27, 2019 at 6:39 pm

    Depends. The only real difference is the Massage and on that front, it will kill both of those tubs.

  440. Reply
    admin February 27, 2019 at 6:38 pm

    They HL series and the Hollywood elite will be very similar, the TS is above both those lines.

    I would expect a good deal on a 7.2 would be in the $12,500+tax range plus extras

  441. Reply
    admin February 26, 2019 at 2:25 pm

    shit dude that’s a cheap price. grab it if you can.

  442. Reply
    admin February 26, 2019 at 2:24 pm

    Middle of the road, they use an acyl bond shell middle fo the road and not very strong, we have a couple hundred around here that we service. the skirts warp and crack on the ones in the field here. the parts, insulation, and plumbing were pretty good… middle of the road like most stuff frankly buying in this range yer as good or better to buy home depot stuff about the same overall but at least the price is better.

  443. Reply
    admin February 26, 2019 at 1:10 pm

    lol winter here is nicer than where you are πŸ™‚

    happy hot tubbing

  444. Reply
    admin February 26, 2019 at 12:53 pm

    Hey Paul

    Swim spas are kind of the replacement for pools… You can use them year round.

    The only brands I would look at locally are Beachcomber and Coast, they are just on the edge of my top rated brands. The Coast is going to beat the Beachcomber on performance but the Beachcomber has better QC.

    there is also a massive dealer in Kitchener that services that area, he is one of the biggest sellers of hot tubs in Canada.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.6View in Google Maps

  445. Reply
    admin February 26, 2019 at 12:49 pm

    Hey Steve.

    The frame does not really matter if the shell is a good hand rolled shell but That spa has a shell that needs supporting as they do not do a high-end self-supporting shell. Even then you don’t care… The Tiber frames out last any hot tub and is stronger and more expensive than aluminum in most cases.

    The bigger issue is the reliability, man when I evaluated requests for help on the discussion forums Hot Springs was the highest by a long shot accounting for over 30% of all requests. The tub uses a proprietary parts list and it’s nowhere near as good or reliable as the really good OEM stuff.

    I’m not a fan of the Brand at all. Frankly, its brands like this that made me start this blog!

    This is the new trend in the hot tub world and its similar to the trend that the appliance industry followed and look at the crap in that industry now! The business model is awesome for corporate profits but crap for the end user… It goes something like this… Build a mid-grade quality using lots of goofy parts that you made to just fit your hot tub so that the dealer and customer have zero option on sourcing parts, you guarantee that you get all the sales for the parts and you can overcharge for the parts because no one else can get them
    πŸ˜‰ Then you spend scads on the branding, the marketing, the spin, and the bullshit and charge the highest prices because of people always equate price with quality…

    These guys are the master at this business model, they really do a great job on the branding marketing end but in my opinion, there are way-way better-built spas for much less money…

    check out these guys, good well built products with easily sourced reliable OEM parts and they take good care of customers.

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4260 Cleveland Ave, Fort Myers, FL 33901
    southeastspas.com
    +1 239-202-0225
    5.0View in Google Maps

  446. Reply
    admin February 26, 2019 at 12:32 pm

    You have very few good choices right around you but we have a great asset registered with the site Johns hot tub service in Yonkers specializes in hot tub service. These independents are great and often offer better levels of service than retailers because its all they do!

    In areas like NY where the cost of retail locations is so crazy high, it drives the prices up to mad levels, having an asset near that can do service opens you up to buying literally anything from anywhere. As long as your dealer is used to doing these long distance deals your solid. you just need a guy with good information and great communication and away you go.

    There is a good guy located not far from you check them out.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110 Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza, Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727

  447. Reply
    admin February 26, 2019 at 10:48 am

    used is tricky, the bullfrog is likely a decent spa for the money.

    Generally these are the rules…

    1. never buy unless it you see it running
    2. take the sides off, look for waterif you see any wet spots inside the skirt its a big issue.
    3. The cover will cost you $500 to replace make sure it is light and not sagging.
    4. Look around the equipment, if there are signs of corrosion, or rust then its likely it has had bad water care.
    5. Take a jet out, they should be in good condition if the plastic looks pitted and brittle or thin be warry, heavy TriChlor use or low hardness can deteriorate the plastic.

  448. Reply
    admin February 24, 2019 at 5:25 pm

    I hope I was convincing for the right reasons. There is a small group of 4 or 5 brands I really like because they spend the money on the tub instead of the spin, marketing, and bullshit… if you have issues hit me up.

    Happy Hot Tubbing

  449. Reply
    admin February 24, 2019 at 5:19 pm

    It’s always a good call on any cover. All hot tub covers suck… The regular ones fail because fo water ingress or snow load and the FRP covers are too heavy and fail because they destroy the vinyl

    Pro tip:

    1. Take any new hot tub cover and unzip it and remove the cores
    2. Take a roll of Tuck tape (The red tape they use when they build a house to seal the vapor barrier, or any tape used to tape seams in vapor barriers on houses)
    3. tape around all the edges and all the seams The manufacturers use box tape that fails and the vinyl skin chafes on the edges and wears through the vapor barrier.
    4. Replace the cores and you will get 2 years more out of the cover πŸ˜‰

  450. Reply
    admin February 24, 2019 at 5:08 pm

    Ya know I always say a great dealer if a mid-grade product is always better than a top product with a mid-grade dealer. let me know if you ever need anything dude.

  451. Reply
    admin February 24, 2019 at 5:07 pm

    Hey Chris

    I like the Marquis stuff although I was really disappointed with the Vector 21 I reviewed. the QC was bad and the tub itself has added complexity that makes you think you have more control but you really don’t. the jet face plates were flimsy and hold the spindle in place and I anticipate high failure rates and because it has loads of proprietary parts they will be more expensive and typically less reliable… I would Stick with the Elite series. Proven reliable and after my video, several dealers reached out and said the elite is much better built and that I should review it.

    Performance wise it’s going to be the middle ground, a lot fo the low flow jets with only a few of the expensive hi floe therapy jets. whats the price?

    check out these guys too compare it to the Healthy living for performance. The Twilight will be a bit pricier but will murder it on performance.

    Bluewater Pools & Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2541 Dougall Ave, Windsor, ON N8X 1T5
    bluewaterpools.ca
    +1 519-969-8561
    4.3View in Google Maps

  452. Reply
    admin February 24, 2019 at 4:35 pm

    Hey Rick

    I don’t have a goto guy there but I can get you filters, accessories, and chemicals shipped directly for less than you can buy them locally and you can use me for the info you need. Ill email you the chem sheet.

    I make my money off donations and selling stuff and in turn, I take great care of you and will go to bat for you if you get any grief, Im like the nice guy enforcer πŸ™‚

    Baqua is old tech dude it does work but its harsh and hard on the spa that’s why most guys don’t use it anymore plus there is better tech.

    @ ease is an Ion system, that spa already has a similar system on board, the eco pure core is Ion its works well and you need to replace it every 9 months.

    I like the Spa Marvel or Aqua finesse, but TBH I don’t do much AF anymore because the Marvel works so well and it’s 1/2 the price.buy it from me man it helps put my kids through college πŸ™‚ You can buy the spa marvel here:

  453. Reply
    admin February 24, 2019 at 2:58 pm

    Hey Blake

    Yeah too good to be true dude. Cheap no name control and heating system, that’s big one, cradle supported shell, and gimmicky insulation system… like most of the stuff out there man, sorry πŸ™‚ In fact the only thing they do that i like is glue and clamp the plumbing… But that’s the norm.. guys do one or two of the important things then cut the corners on the rest.

    even the top tubs performance is going to be low, they use all the cheap little jets and hardly any of the expensive high flow therapy massage jets. and stay the hell away from TV on hot tubs… they just fail all the time its why almost no one does them anymore.

    Dude, I’m not selling you anything, I don’t give a shit what you buy it does not affect what I earn in any way whatsoever πŸ™‚

    But stick to brands that are doing at the very least the 4 main things or go to Home Depot because the truth is 80% of the stuff out there is all spin and marketing bullshit there are very few guys doing this well.

    If you want good tubs look at Artesians at Staten Island Pool & Spa, or master at east coast spa in Harborough or Suntek Pools & Spas on Long Island, or hell even Marquis spas at National Pools & Spas in Robbinsville but man there are no magic bullets…

  454. Reply
    admin February 24, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    Hey Mike

    Not a big fan of Vita. it is part of the American whirlpool group and funny enough I looked at one in Atlanta last January πŸ™‚ it was your typical cradel supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing lines and gimmicky insulation system that would never meet code in a regulated industry like houses. It’s not that its a wreck but certainly nowhere near the top build standards, my argument is that these types of companies should be selling for cheap but instead they spend lots on branding advertising and marketing spin and then sell for way more than they are really worth… The reasons retailers like them is the margins are bigger for lower prices…

    Go to Atlanta Spa and leisure, they sell master and Max and vita… They do good back up and service but there are no two ways about it the master is worth the extra

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure Inc
    Owner Adam

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6120 GA-400 b, Cumming, GA 30028
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-888-3636

  455. Reply
    admin February 24, 2019 at 11:10 am

    Hi

    From a build quality standpoint, The Beachcomber, then the Coast. The Beachcomber does not do any high performance models they are more simple but solid, The Coast does higher end but is haunted by so many bad reviews including some first-hand stuff to me from past dealers.

    The Arctic I do not like at all, great shell but it ends there, loads of proprietary parts, an insulation system that would never meet code anywhere in Canada for a house (it’s lucky if it gets R-8-10 minimum for a house in most places is R-25) and they don’t even clamp the plumbing lines, and loads of gimmicks like the spa boy automatic system and 20-year-old salt water systems being re-introduced as new tech the performance is good but there are just too many cut corners. The best thing about that hot tub, in my opinion, is marketing. Maxx has good parts and ok performance but a thin cradel supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing lines and again an insulation system its is inexpensive and nowhere near good enough for a cold climate. Maxx/American whirlpool/Vita good parts, but the shell is cradel supported, they use radiant barrier insulation with a bit of batton, and no clamps on plumbing.

    Once you decide to go outside of your immediate area (50-60km) distance no longer really matters. Because you go from a local dealer to not a remote dealer. No the nice thing about the Colling wood area is there are loads of independant guys doing property management, general repairs, etc because its a big summer home area so you have lots of resources on the ground for parts replacement so what you need is a good spa with easily sourced parts and a dealer who answers his phone and knows his shit.

    hit my Buddy Griff up, he can likely help you in that area.

    Griffin Ryan
    416-7790563
    griffan@hotmail.com

    1535 Meyerside Dr #16, Mississauga, ON L5T 1M9

  456. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 3:07 pm

    Hard to say.

    I’m not a fan of the brand to start with, the little dicky low flow circ pump fails a lot, and they murder you on those bloody mid grade proprietary parts, the heater relay board failures are epic the Invensys system again has never been a great reliable system funny enough they now sell a balboa replacement for that tub but they sell it at twice what you can buy it for anywhere else… I would want to see it running first.

  457. Reply
    chris wheatley February 22, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    Hi Colin

    Endless is pretty good but it just got bought out by a big company that bought a pile of hot tub guys and their business model is to build mid-grade, use loads of proprietary parts to capture you for life on overpriced mid grade parts… Since the takeover, I would be wary of the line. These types of companies are great at making a profit because they build mid-grade, spend loads of money and resources and slick marketing, advertising, branding, and charge top dollar…

    The MP was not just an endorsement deal with Phelps they wanted a swim spa that could train high-end athletes so Phelps and Bob Bowman his coach worked with them to design the MP line and its miles ahead of anything out there. That why USA Swimming the main body for pro swimming in the US teamed with them to have these trainers in their facilities…

  458. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    Hey Andrew

    Itch is usually either pH or too high chlorine. You can also get it from heat rash if you’re sensitive to the heat.

    You could try an Enzyme like this:

  459. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 2:45 pm

    Hi Beth

    All tubs reclaim heat pretty well, the guys doing cheap insulation system try and have you believe that you need a big open area with no insulation to reclaim heat but you don’t. the open area in the front of the hot ub reclaims heat really well because the hot air from the pumps gets sucked in tot he ozone system and injected right into the water.

    the other three sides you want to be packed full of insulation… watch this video…

    Of those brands, the Nordic is the strongest and has the best insulation system but it’s not the top, I like to see a full foam Icynene system which gives you maximum R-value and still easy access to plumbing for leaks. , I would not consider the Hot Springs The goofy proprietary parts alone would make me run for the hills this Idea of getting parts made to only fit your spa is done to trap you into paying way too much for mid grade parts. The Saratoga is again middle of the road and cheap insulation…

    check out these guys they make getaway Hot Tubs that are like the Nordic but better insulated with a thicker shell.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
    Remove
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    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  460. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 2:38 pm

    Hey Jay

    Its a middle of the road spa, with a cradle, supported shell and radiant insulation,

    Performance wise again mostly the small cheap jets with very few of the high flow therapy jets.

    It should be quite cheap to buy but it’s certainly nothing to write home about. it’s like most brands one or two good things then a lot of corners cut on important things like the insulation, and build quality. They are also made in Europe and have a lot of proprietary parts again a big nono

    Always be wary of a spa that has loads of features and a small price.. the only way to do this is to make the spa cheap and put loads of bling in which is exactly the opposite of what you want… considering they ship those in from Europe and still sell cheap you just know there is something wrong it just does not add up πŸ™‚

    If you are on a budget go the other way… basic solid construction then at least wit will last and do what it is suposed to do and if you stick to a good OEM parts list you can always get good reliable parts anywhere.

    check out these guys

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    2.9View in Google Maps

  461. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 2:24 pm

    Hey Mike

    Sooo first off a 20 amp pump at 240 volts assuming a 90% efficiency which is very generous would be around 5.8Hp but like you pointed out its also about a lot of other things like how many jets of each size are on the pump, and how efficient the plumbing lines are laid out and if it has a diverter that can put the whole pump into one seat.

    For neck and shoulders, you need the bigger 3.5″ jets and you want 4 of them above the water line. killer…

    For really good therapy massage you need the big hi flow therapy jets, they don’t feel as abusive as the little jets but they do much better therapy, check out this article.

    I had a vector 21 last month, I got to say performance wise it was definitely upper end but not quite as good as the Twilight main seat, I also like the monster jets on the twilight because you can divert a whole 6hp (same as above not really 6 hp :-0) to the main seat and the other one to the monster jets.

    the vector 21 I had had some major issues including a leak and a lot fo Qc issues see the video review here:

    The Coast spas on paper are good but the same concern I have… loads and loads of bad reviews and I have spoken personally to a few ex-dealers and they say just too many quality control issues… I spoke to them a few times and they want me to come to see the factory and claim they have it under control but so far not made it down so its a big unknown.

    That being said either of those two brands would be better than the crap available in your local market πŸ™‚ and there are tons of service companies around you I would not touch an arctic, Hot springs, jacuzzi… proprietary parts alone would make me run for the hills but the reality is this new way of doing things is to build mid grade spas, wrap them up in loads of fancy marketing, branding, slick advertising and sell them as super high end all the while capturing you with the goofy parts so they have you held to ransom forever for mid grade parts at twice what they are worth πŸ™‚ read this

  462. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 1:21 pm

    Hey Travis

    sorry for the delay!

    I was on vacation πŸ™‚

    The running cost is a lot higher on a swimmer I would say close to twice.

    The H2X uses the same therapy seat as The Twilight πŸ™‚

  463. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 1:08 pm

    Hey dude!

    4 teenage boys! ARGHHHHH I have one and that’s enough to do my head in πŸ™‚ You do need a spa!

    I am not a fan of the American whirlpool line, I tore open a Vita in January and was really not impressed…

    The shell was a thin cradle supported shell

    The insulation is a joke, it would never meet code in any northern US state for a house so why would it be good enough for a hot tub? these radiant barriers are cheap and were basically banned in regulated industries in the ’80s and copper color makes almost zero difference these systems have no thermal mass and top out at around R-3 and that little bit of foam and batton might add another R6 or 8 (you need R-20-25 for a house)

    The plumbing wasn’t even clamped… I would not touch it with a ten-foot pole…

  464. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 12:58 pm

    I dont know much about them to be honest but right off the bat if you are in a cold climate forget it! that “insulation” system is a joke it would never meet code in a house in any northern US state and just because some asshat marketing guy says its good in no way changes the real science… its lucky if its R-8 and the minimum you want is R20… those radiant barriers were basically banned in the 80’s in any regulated industry and 20 years later they are emerging as the miracle insulation system is the messed up virtually unregulated hot tub industry πŸ™‚

    check out Hot tubs of Rockville for Artesian I don’t know the dealer and for that brand, you want a decent dealer because there is no factory direct support or go see these guys, I have sent them piles of customers and they do a good job.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
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    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    4.0View in Google Maps

  465. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 12:51 pm

    Hey Julie

    LA is wack there are hardly any retailers left because the cost of property is wackadoodle so they can only sell the overpriced big branded spas with the massive margins.. these tubs are never a good buy, loads of proprietary parts and mid-grade build with tons and tons spent on the spin, the marketing, the branding, and the bullshit.

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store in Placentia, Look at the Artesian, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera (see above)” but I would only consider the Artesian.

    In that area there should be 50 retailers and there are like 15 but there are like 30 independant service guys no one pays retail out there anymore they buy from out of state save a ton and then just hook up with a local service guy, I literally can set you up to 20 guys that are registered with the site.

  466. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 12:44 pm

    Hey Steve

    The LSX is a great spa, the main therapy chair is from the Twilight and i think its the best massage seat on the market right now.

    The curve should be a bit less expensive and anything below $17k on the LSX900 is a good price

  467. Reply
    admin February 22, 2019 at 11:30 am

    Hey Jeff

    The problem with your area is you have zero good brands. Arctic, jacuzzi, Hot springs etc they are all the new way and it’s not a good way… All these guys are big on proprietary parts which is the worst scenario for the end user… This planned obsolescence and getting parts made that just fit their spas so they can screw you for life on mid grade parts at exorberant prices is endemic in the appliance industry and now is making the hot tub industry a nightmare… None of those brands are that good! They spend more money and resources on the spin, the branding, and the bullshit and the reality is they are mid grade massively overpriced hot tubs.

    The truth is most parts swap on the good brands using OEM parts are easy… Any handyman can swap parts and if you have anything more serious then there is an independant in Kennewick called American Pool n Spas LLC that can handle it.

    What you need is a good resource like me to contact and help through any issues.

  468. Reply
    admin February 20, 2019 at 3:34 pm

    Hi Guys!

    I have always liked beachcomber, build wise they do the right things… Hand rolled self-supporting shell with a vinyl ester resin barrier layer, glued and clamped plumbing lines, good full foam insulation… Hybrid is old tech everyone went away from it decades ago, and yeah the jet count thing is annoying but the non-hybrid model is in my top 5. good solid built spa. Performance wise they could use a higher-end therapy line but for build quality its right up there.

  469. Reply
    admin February 20, 2019 at 3:15 pm

    Hey Colin

    First off most spas are not bought from retailers in your area… I can tell because I only have 10 retailers in a pop base that should have 40 and I have 15 independent hot tub service companies listed that specialize in just fixing hot tubs int he area!

    This tells me that there are a lot of hot tubs being sold at event sales, fairs, and home shows, we see this in areas where the propriety values are too high and the cost of running a retail location is driving prices too high, then people start buying out of market and then we see the retailers closing and the independent service companies taking over.

    Its a good scenario for the end user… As long as you stay away from brands with goofy proprietary parts, and stick to a good build standard you can get the best of both worlds… good prices and great service… these independent service companies do as good or better of a job than retailers because retailers primary focus is selling and all the service guys to is fix spas… It’s their only focus.

  470. Reply
    admin February 20, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    Hey Steve

    The guys at valley are awesome, I know the owners and they literally have award-winning service. the LSX is off the head and should be more than the Curve for sure. the main seat on the LSX is the same therapy seat as the Twilight and IMHO its the best massage seat on the market. $15,500 plus tax is a solid price anything under $17k is good.

  471. Reply
    admin February 20, 2019 at 2:20 pm

    Hey Nick

    first off forget proximity, everything is so far away from you that you are going to rely on a general electrician for most of your stuff, even The Artesian dealer in St. George is going to use a contractor and you are not going ot get great service they are almost two hours away… The reality is they might say they can take care of you there but it’s going to be with a local guy.

    So your priority is simple… you want a well-built spa-like everyone and you need to make sure the parts list is easily sourced.

    It’s actually not a bad scenario you can save a lot by buying out of market where the dealer knows they don’t have a lot of obligation, you will save more than it will ever cost you in service πŸ™‚ people always think its important to see and touch it before they buy but 99% of the buyers don’t know enough to make a good buying decision anyway… Too complex and too many variables and too much misinformation…

    I called a few electricians around you hedgehog won’t do it but Clark will do component swaps and frankly, if you have a handyman on the good spas it’s all plug and play anyway… All ya need is a good communications guy with the right information like me πŸ™‚

    let me look around and see what I can find.

  472. Reply
    admin February 20, 2019 at 2:07 pm

    Hi Douglas

    i think they might be part of the Dr. wellness brand. a quick look gave me enough to say not in my tier one. the insulation would never meet code for a house, its cheap and low r value, the control system is good but stay away from steel frames, they don’t hold up nearly as good as a timber frame, they rust and fall apart. it is what it is like most hot tubs its a bit of the good a bit of the bad.

    you have very little around you the nearest dealer with a brand on my top 5 list would be these guys.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  473. Reply
    admin February 8, 2019 at 5:42 pm

    Hey John

    Not even close to the same build quality… I opened a Vita (from the same factory and same build) it was a mess… Thin cradel supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing, and radiant insulation with a bit of batt… they used a copper Bi pet instead of Mylar but it makes zero difference radiant systems are not good at containing heat into a system they have very little R-value.

  474. Reply
    admin February 8, 2019 at 5:37 pm

    That’s pricy for sure.

    For that kind of money, I would expect a lot more of the expensive Hi flow jets and flow control. that tub is mostly the small inexpensive low flow jets with only a handful of the expensive high flow therapy massage jets. It also needs a neck system with the 3.5″ jets… Don’t get me wrong its a well-built tub with good parts but it’s not in the top league for performance for sure.

    Try these guys, same build with a little better QC and you can likely get a Twilight for that money which performance wise is gonna kick it

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    2.9View in Google Maps

  475. Reply
    admin February 8, 2019 at 5:29 pm

    Hey Bob

    the Guys at marquis have been in touch a lot recently, they were quite embarrassed and maintain that it was a bad tub and not their standard.

    You can for sure use spa marvel with the frog, in fact, I recommend the Ion with spa marvel its a great pairing.

    I can send you a tip sheet for the spa marvel specifically tailored to the frog

  476. Reply
    admin February 8, 2019 at 5:26 pm

    its a tough number… most spas at this price point are junk.

    there are a few… if you goto a rotationally molded hot tub like getaway spas or Nordic you can get good buys.

  477. Reply
    admin February 8, 2019 at 5:20 pm

    Hi

    Sorry for the delay in responding.

    The Dynasty I am not a fan of, have a boo at this video. I also had a lot of fo feedback from people since with similar stories…

    Not much good up by u dude.

  478. Reply
    admin February 8, 2019 at 5:03 pm

    hey Gino

    The Arctic has a good shell and awesome marketing and branding and advertising… Hell if you could soak in their brochure I would buy one but the reality is other than the shell nothing else makes it to my tier one list. The plumbing is not clamped and unsupported, the equipment is proprietary which to me is the worst scenario and there is very little insulation. The Marquis has an equally good shell and way better parts, and they clamp the plumbing lines and fill the cavity with good insulation for a much better Rvalue… I would not touch the Arctic with a ten-foot pole and would happily sell or buy a Marquis.

    for good apples to apple comparison on the Marquis see a Coast or Master or Artesian. I don’t have any dealers registered with the other two but there is a Master guy close…

    Fraser Valley Hot Tubs
    Master Dealer
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    32912 Mission Way unit 10, Mission, BC V2V 6E4
    http://www.fraservalleyhottubs.com
    +1 604-618-4198
    View in Google Maps

  479. Reply
    admin February 8, 2019 at 4:14 pm

    Hi

    Sorry for the delay I have been run off my feet and I needed to research this line as I never heard of them πŸ™‚

    The first thing is the shell and on this, they fall way short of my minimum Tier one… these ABS plastic shells were all the rage 20 years ago, they were supposed to be strong enough o support themselves and never blister. they had huge failure rates and were nowhere near strong enough and most of the industry abandoned the tech. You still see a few guys using them but typically only the lower end of the market. The problem is that fiberglass tubs have big emissions and the equipment needed to clean the air to protect the environment is Boku bucks but it’s far and away the best shell…

    I like the controls but then the use a cheaper Poly based foam. the problems with these foams is you can only put a bit on the shell because the stuff hardens up like a rock and if you cover the pipes or fill the cavity you would never be able to find and fix leaks, in order to fill the cavity you need to go to expensive specialty foams that don’t harden.

    I also can not see how they plumb so I can’t comment on the plumbing but frankly, there are already enough things to keep this off my recommended list.

    Performance wise even their highest end only has a few of the expensive large hi flow therapy massage jets the rest are the little cheap low flow jets.

  480. Reply
    admin February 6, 2019 at 2:41 pm

    Hey David

    I like the direct to customer deal.

    I had to do some digging around on this one, haven’t really come across Thermospas too much πŸ™‚

    First off the shell designs made me smile, there are right out of the 80’s all the sharp angles and terrible use of space πŸ™‚ Water environments are all about space, and the footwells on most of the models make them no good for anything over 2 or 3 people.

    Jetting wise again this is right out fo the 80’s all the cheap low flow jets so you can quote mad numbers of jets! more is better!!!! and lots of little pumps, again to make it sound impressive. the reality is fewer pumps are better, and for massage the big expensive hi flow therapy jets are better than the little low flow bullet jets… hell 118 $10 jets is just over a grand where 40 of the high flow therapy jets with a big foot jet system and diverters could be $2k…

    Finally, the insulation, forget it these radiant barriers were basically banned in the 80’s in regulated industries, now in this unregulated industry they are the miracle insulator… laughable cheap outdated… https://hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

  481. Reply
    admin February 6, 2019 at 1:08 pm

    depends… why did it need all that gear? did it freeze up?

    or does it have a circ pump??? the low flow issue with circ pump?

    price is right just wary about all the new parts on a such a new spa…

  482. Reply
    admin February 6, 2019 at 1:07 pm

    I got a good buddy named Griffin Ryan, he can help you hit him up at griffryan@hotmail.com

    The Hot Tub people in Peterborough do Nordic and Coast as well… The rest of the stuff right around you is meh…

  483. Reply
    admin February 6, 2019 at 12:30 am

    Hi Marcia

    I’ve always had a hard time with this area, You have PDC Spas, Garden Leisure, and Saratoga which is a NY manufacturer. none stand out as great examples.

    I wonder if people go to Canada to buy and take advantage of the strong US dollar?

  484. Reply
    admin February 5, 2019 at 1:35 pm

    Hi Ryan

    The prices on the new ones are good.

    I don’t like the circ pump on the 2009 but for $3900 it’s a good buy and if it gives you too much trouble you can replumb to take out the circ pump. it will cost you around $400

    The contractor is a solid simple tub but make sure it does not have the MS30 pack that pack was a shit show. you will know because its a little squat black pack like this: https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-pzer0e/images/stencil/500×659/products/7412/12668/201608181538_X300791_2000x1500__19044__56562.1521653698.jpg?c=2

    not any years that stand out as a big deal on those 2 lines.

  485. Reply
    admin February 5, 2019 at 1:29 pm

    Hey Bob

    The problem is in your area you don’t have any good choices at all… You have the heavily branded guys Like Caldera, HotSprings, Jacuzzi but these guys just don’t build great tubs IMO they are great at marketing, branding, advertising but the tubs are mid-grade and loaded with proprietary parts which IMO is the worst case scenario and just a bad buy for the end user. I trolled through hundreds of post on discussion forums where people ask for help fixing broken spas and these three had a hugely disproportionate number of people looking for help, the problem is not just that they don’t hold up well but also because they use a goofy parts list its hard to find guys to fix them… I would never ever put myself or a customer in the position of having a proprietary parts list. Read the article on parts here is a link

    You do however have 4 independant service guys within 30 miles of you so you should not have an issue going out of the market.

    I know Kevin up at hot tubs inc and he is a pretty stand up guy, they take good care, hit him up and see he will tell you if he can service you there.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.9View in Google Maps

  486. Reply
    admin February 5, 2019 at 1:14 pm

    Hey Kay or Joe or joekay πŸ™‚

    I reviewed the factory in Jan 2018.

    They were on my short list for Tier one brands but missed the mark on a few issues.

    The shell I was unimpressed with especially after the way they hype it up in the marketing! The “steel angle iron” was little more than a thin strip of metal like you use on the corner of drywall! I would be amazed if it offered any support at all, the shell was not hand rolled or self-supporting… strike one and a big strike! the shell is the most important thing.

    The full foam is an upgrade so factor that into your pricing, also on some models they use the Balboa system which is great and on others the waterways which is unknown although a lot fo the big shots from Balboa worked on it. personally, I’m die-hard Balboa. reliable easy to source parts for.

    also, a lot of tubs in the testing area with failures, and finally way too many skews for their size… no wonder they have QC issues they have a dizzying array of models and options for a company of their size. they really need to get back to basics and streamline the production.

    The area you are in does not have a lot of good options, the only one I would consider would be the Bullfrog or Cal and they are both Tier 2 due to the shells.

  487. Reply
    admin February 5, 2019 at 11:58 am

    All in all def in the top 10 they have been plagued in the past by bad reviews about QC but seem to have upped their game recently.

    they do a hand-rolled shell, good parts, clamp the plumbing and fill the cavity with Icynene foam.

  488. Reply
    admin February 4, 2019 at 1:38 pm

    Hey Chef!

    are you a Chef? if so next time I’m in your area I want fed a proper meal πŸ™‚

    I was literally right in your area a few months back we stayed at the Decado on sunset beach and raced in the Sharkbite surf ski races… what a blast!

    Anyway, you don’t have a lot of good brands around you but you do have a ton of independant service guys around you. I think there must be a big hot tub sale or a bunch of them in your area because it looks like most of the retailers are gone and have been replaced with a bunch of independant service companies, we see this where retail space is getting too expensive which drives the prices up to stupid levels and so people just start buying from out of market and these little independent service guys start popping up. it’s actually a good scenario because these guys only do service so they are usually better than the retailers anyway. I have 4 service companies within 5 miles of you!

    if you want high-end therapy look at the Twilight if you want entry level look at the Getaway spas, these guys out of West Palm can likely help you and if you need any help with service or chems hit me up!

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4260 Cleveland Ave, Fort Myers, FL 33901
    southeastspas.com
    +1 239-202-0225
    5.0View in Google Maps

  489. Reply
    admin February 4, 2019 at 12:22 pm

    D&L pools in Peoria sells Nordic good well built spas with the plastic shells. I’m not nuts on the colors but they are pretty good.

    To compare directly go to Backyard Living in Bloomington, virtually identical shell layouts (i think they copied Nordics molds πŸ™‚ but a thicker shell, much better insulation, and way nicer look and colors πŸ™‚

    The guys in Bloomington also carry the higher end therapy massage small tubs like Twilight.

    Man I know its a bit away but the stuff around you I would not waste my money on with the possible exception of the Bullfrog from Great escape but it’s in my Tier 2 and overpriced.

  490. Reply
    admin February 4, 2019 at 11:36 am

    Hey John.

    In my experience that is simply not good information.

    Master is right with eco pure alone you should run around 2ppm about the same as a salt water hot tub, but if you add an enzyme like Spa Marvel you can get down to a lot lower.

    Order it from me, its the best price, you help support the site, you get my support for questions and it has got a 100% money back guarantee if you buy from me πŸ™‚

    You can buy it here:

    Ill email you over a tip sheet.

  491. Reply
    admin February 4, 2019 at 11:29 am

    Def the Artesian by a long shot.

    just the insulation alone on the Clearwater is enough to make me run away… radiant barriers were basically run out of the housing industry in the 80’s all the northern US states issued a formal warning about it it is R3!!! Code for a house in your area is R 25! cheap junky insulation see this video… also its a cradle supported shell. Its middle of the road at best.

    On the other hand, the Artesian uses a hand-rolled self-supporting shell and an icynene foam insulation system, they spend way more time and money building that hot tub.

  492. Reply
    admin February 4, 2019 at 11:22 am

    this is a strong spa: https://youtu.be/vVpuTxjXq2o

  493. Reply
    admin January 29, 2019 at 1:46 pm

    Hi Lauren

    There are 5 in my tier one group.

    Master is my top because they have the best factory direct to customer support system so its less dealer-centric, and their quality control and consistency is solid. They also do a massive range from entry-level to crazy therapy massage models.

    Artesian is my second choice, small little outfit but built well and consistent, no factory direct support though at all so you need a good dealer.

    Beachcomber Leep models (stay away from the Hybrid models its bad tech) the only downside is they do not do any high-performance models and they use cir pumps which again are not a good idea.

    Coast on paper does all the right things but they are dogged by QC issues.

    Marquis again on paper good but zero factory support and QC issues I got ahold of a new 2018 unit and there were a lot of issues.

  494. Reply
    admin January 28, 2019 at 8:05 pm

    Hey Tammy.

    Yeah get an Ion mineral filter like Eco pure or Spa frog or nature 2

    Then use Spa marvel, it’s awesome, it’s easier than any of the fancy onboard chemical reduction systems

    Buy it from me please πŸ™‚ helps support the 100 odd hours a week you people demand πŸ™‚

    Then follow these tips…

    SPA MARVEL QUICK AND EASY DIRECTIONS

    Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

    1. Remove Filters
    2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
    3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
    4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
    5. Refill the tub

    Spa Marvel Startup

    1. Heat water to desired temp
    2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
    3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
    4. Use test strips to test water
    5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
    6. Run pumps for 5 min
    7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
    8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
    9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

    Weekly

    1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
    2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
    3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

    ** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

    **RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

    **EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

    **IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE – MAKE SURE YOU ARE PUTTING 3 ENOUGH CHLORINE IN TO MAINTAIN 1PPM

    ** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH WITH MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF DETERGENT AND ALWAYS DO A SECOND RINSE, THE JETS ARE POWERFUL THEREFORE THEY PULL SOAP FROM THE CLOTHES AND IT’LL MAKE YOUR WATER FOAMY!!

    **IT’S SMART TO ONLY TEST YOUR WATER ONCE PER WEEK. ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS CAN SLIGHTLY ALTER THE PH AND ALKALINITY BUT THIS CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE JETS ARE RUNNING. YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDOSE YOUR WATER WITH CHEMICALS.
    ***LOCAL GOVERNMENT GUIDELINES SHOULD OVERRIDE THIS ADVICE EVEN IF IT IS YEARS OUT OF DATE AND TOTALLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY.

    Oh and go see these guys! I Trust them.

    SPA MARVEL QUICK AND EASY DIRECTIONS

    Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

    1. Remove Filters
    2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
    3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
    4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
    5. Refill the tub

    Spa Marvel Startup

    1. Heat water to desired temp
    2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
    3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
    4. Use test strips to test water
    5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
    6. Run pumps for 5 min
    7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
    8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
    9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

    Weekly

    1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
    2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
    3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

    ** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

    **RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

    **EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

    **IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE – MAKE SURE YOU ARE PUTTING 3 ENOUGH CHLORINE IN TO MAINTAIN 1PPM

    ** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH WITH MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF DETERGENT AND ALWAYS DO A SECOND RINSE, THE JETS ARE POWERFUL THEREFORE THEY PULL SOAP FROM THE CLOTHES AND IT’LL MAKE YOUR WATER FOAMY!!

    **IT’S SMART TO ONLY TEST YOUR WATER ONCE PER WEEK. ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS CAN SLIGHTLY ALTER THE PH AND ALKALINITY BUT THIS CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE JETS ARE RUNNING. YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDOSE YOUR WATER WITH CHEMICALS.
    ***LOCAL GOVERNMENT GUIDELINES SHOULD OVERRIDE THIS ADVICE EVEN IF IT IS YEARS OUT OF DATE AND TOTALLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY.

  495. Reply
    admin January 28, 2019 at 7:53 pm

    hey this guy is a little ways away but hes solid as a rock.

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    3.9View in Google Maps

  496. Reply
    admin January 28, 2019 at 7:44 pm

    Hey Kelly

    Yeah, it works well together its similar to the Eco-Pure cartridge in my spa, basically an ion filter that kills bacteria.

    Buy it from me please πŸ™‚ its the best price is 100% refundable and works well. plus if you ever have issues hit me up I will help πŸ™‚ Sometimes it boggles my mind that almost 100,000 people buying hot tubs spend almost an hour with me before they buy, what a crazy world, but I still manage to talk to everyone that asks… I must be nuts…

    Anyway, you can order it here at the bottom of the page:

    Here is how I do it but I advise to follow local health and safety advice even if it is 20 years out of date πŸ™‚

    SPA MARVEL QUICK AND EASY DIRECTIONS

    Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

    1. Remove Filters
    2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
    3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
    4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
    5. Refill the tub

    Spa Marvel Startup

    1. Heat water to desired temp
    2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
    3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
    4. Use test strips to test water
    5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
    6. Run pumps for 5 min
    7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
    8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
    9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

    Weekly

    1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
    2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
    3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

    ** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

    **RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

    **EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

    **IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE – MAKE SURE YOU ARE PUTTING 3 ENOUGH CHLORINE IN TO MAINTAIN 1PPM

    ** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH WITH MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF DETERGENT AND ALWAYS DO A SECOND RINSE, THE JETS ARE POWERFUL THEREFORE THEY PULL SOAP FROM THE CLOTHES AND IT’LL MAKE YOUR WATER FOAMY!!

    **IT’S SMART TO ONLY TEST YOUR WATER ONCE PER WEEK. ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS CAN SLIGHTLY ALTER THE PH AND ALKALINITY BUT THIS CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE JETS ARE RUNNING. YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDOSE YOUR WATER WITH CHEMICALS.
    ***LOCAL GOVERNMENT GUIDELINES SHOULD OVERRIDE THIS ADVICE EVEN IF IT IS YEARS OUT OF DATE AND TOTALLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY.

  497. Reply
    admin January 28, 2019 at 6:11 pm

    Hi Beth

    There is no local dealer right there but there is a pile of independant service guys in your area. so you could buy from any dealer and still have good care.

    Hit These guys up they might be able to help you.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.4View in Google Maps

  498. Reply
    admin January 28, 2019 at 5:58 pm

    Hey Drake

    Of the two the bullfrog for sure. the only bad thing with he bullfrog is the cheap plastic shell with the pedestal supports. Im not nuts on the stupid jetpacks and the claims about efficiency because of reduced plumbing is not true at all but good parts, good insulation, good plumbing.

    The American whirlpool uses a fiberglass shell but its a thin pedestal supported shell so similar quality to the Bullfrog, but the insulation is junk and they don’t clamp the plumbing on the one I saw in March…

    Check out Jaq at Emperess she might have service down there:

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.3View in Google Maps

  499. Reply
    admin January 28, 2019 at 5:50 pm

    Some people say anything, and frankly, a lot of people don’t know what the hell they are talking about.

    There are some things right though… The really good spa brands are made with multiple parts, its a good thing, there are Ori9ginal Equipment manufacturers that have been specializing in building spa parts for 30+ years, guys like Balboa, waterways, etc. these guys build the best parts out there and you can bypass the manufacturer of the hot tub and get the parts anywhere and that means they are competitively priced.

    Then there are the big corporate guys that are pulling this proprietary parts bullshit which works like this, they get parts made that only fit their hot tub πŸ™‚ they are not better quality, they do not last as long, and because you can only get the parts from the hot tub manufacturer they charge way more :-). Its a scam… they basically hold you to ransom for the price of the parts forever and they guarantee themselves high profits off this little play… Never buy a brand playing this game.

    As for the fiberglass no idea… Caldera uses an ABS plastic tub with no fiberglass, its a thin cheap shell master hand rolls a self-supporting fiberglass shell built like a boat hull and needing no props or supports. here is a video of the master spa factory hand rolling shells. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRJnamGYDbY&t=19s

  500. Reply
    admin January 28, 2019 at 12:21 pm

    Hi Cody

    Thanks for the correction πŸ™‚

    Sorry dude typo πŸ™‚

  501. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 3:20 pm

    Hey Dawn

    I had a look at the American whirlpool last March and I was not overly impressed.

    The shell was not a hand-rolled self-supporting shell, it was cradle supported, there were no clamps on the plumbing and the insulation was a copper Bi pet with a little bit of batton… again cheap and nowhere near code for a house in any northern state.

    Hot Spot over in Liberty carries marquis and I’ve got an all-star down in North Kansas City that is awesome

    Above & Beyond
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    203 Armour Rd, North Kansas City, MO 64116
    http://www.aboveandbeyondkc.com
    +1 816-421-4011
    4.0View in Google Maps

  502. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 3:12 pm

    hey man hit up the boys at South East spas

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps

  503. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 3:09 pm

    Yeah because im busy and this site gets crazy busy sometimes πŸ™‚ sorry for the delay πŸ˜‰

  504. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 3:08 pm

    Hey Ryan

    Trust no one!!! Except me πŸ™‚

    I have a guy right in your town, Aqua Spas are awesome and they are good people I hung out with them in Phoenix this year at a conference and have referred them a lot of customers with no complaints. There is a group called custom spas in Denver that I’ve talked to a few times, they were very proactive as well but I don’t actually have any direct feedback and can’t speak for their service level but the Carry Artesian that again is built right.

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.0View in Google Maps

  505. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 2:57 pm

    Uv tech is good they use it for drinking water but I’m not a huge fan of any of the hot tub chemical reduction upgrades only because the aftermarket stuff like Spa Marvel is better, cheaper, and has the added advantage of stabilizing PH… its just makes your water easy to manage, slower chemical and is cheaper…

  506. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    πŸ™‚

    Yeah sorry, I sometimes oversimplify… Yes you do need to remove the side, and yes there is a harness typically it has 4 lights on it again its pretty fast and easy the connection to the harness will be readily visible, up plug and replace the strand then refoam or if you are careful you can just pull large chunks of foam and put them back. the whole operation for a tech is 15 min or so. You can get a proper refoam kit from your dealer or hit me up and ill get you one.

  507. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 2:38 pm

    I always get caught on this one πŸ™‚ Garden spas by Artesian are good tubs and they name them all after flowers.

    Garden Leisure is mid-grade and copies their color schemes and names to fool people πŸ™‚ I do not like the insulation, they use icynene but instead of spending the money to fill the cavity they just use a couple inches… cheap and nowhere near code for a house in any northern region. They glue and clamp the plumbing but don’t use the more expensive barbed fittings, I do not like circ pumps they are a gimmick and they don’t use Balboa control and heating systems which for me is a total deal breaker… in fact, there are loads that knock this out of my ok range.

    I don’t have a lot of resources for you in that area.

  508. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 2:16 pm

    Hey Larry

    Most Artesians are full foam, not sure you can add much more in that unit but it may have been an upgrade on the garden spa line.

    I take the sides off, just put in fiberglass pink make sure you leave good breathing room around the motors and pumps don’t put anything in that front area at all. wrap it with a vapor barrier again making sure to cut and vent holes that are in the skirt then put your skirts back on.

    Alternatively, take the fiberglass pink batts and take big hefty garbage bags and then wrap the batts in the plastic bags and seal them with tuck tape and put them around the inside fo the spa again making sure the front area is clear.

    in either scenario do not compress the batts, it’s not about getting as much in it’s about keeping the loft int he batts and just filling the cavity.

  509. Reply
    admin January 24, 2019 at 1:48 pm

    Hi Jim

    Sorry for the late response, this site kills me sometimes πŸ™‚

    The reason the TS was so expensive is because of the jetting and the flow control. sure the Nordic is a good tub but the jetting and performance are nowhere near the TS.

    Tropic seas is made by artesian, and again if we look at the jetting it is all the cheap low flow jets with a few mid flows, no flow control, and no real neck or foot system, its why it is 2k less:-)

    Twilight is expensive and hits all your points, if you went to Artesian elite spas they would be the same price as the TS and again very close to the same performance, but they do not do a small spa in their high-end therapy massage spas.

    Again you could go to a Coast like the traditional http://www.coastspas.com/spas-legacy.php the Omega is going to be built well but again performance wise the jetting is mostly inexpensive low flow jets, and again only a couple small low flow jets for the neck and no foot jets system.

    The problem here is 2 things, first, you want quality and that’s covered by any of the brands you want, then you want therapy massage performance and there are no other really high-end therapy massage spas out there.

    when you want to know about performance look at the jets… lots of big high flow therapy jets esp in the neck area and big monster jets in the floor for calves and feet and diverters to move the water around and concentrate it in certain seats is going to massage really well and cost a lot πŸ™‚

    Your budget is a little on the low side for your shopping list so either sacrifice one or more of the wants or up your spend you can’t have both

  510. Reply
    admin January 21, 2019 at 12:46 pm

    I’m concerned about your service guy as there are no pistons on electrical motors πŸ™‚

    that’s too much for the motors, I’ll email you a better option. but its def worth fixing.

  511. Reply
    admin January 21, 2019 at 12:40 pm

    Sure Im gonna do a video on them but watch this video for now:

    also here is where you can get the enzyme cheap and help support the site!

  512. Reply
    admin January 21, 2019 at 12:38 pm

    Hey Kevin

    It’s an easy fix.

    remove the light and put a new one in, 10-minute job no long term problems

  513. Reply
    admin January 20, 2019 at 6:22 pm

    No nothing there the guys in Lynchburg are part of these guys I think, if they are they are a good group.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513

  514. Reply
    admin January 20, 2019 at 6:14 pm

    Hey Silvester

    read this:

    Diamond AOP – this is Watkins and its basically ozone, MPS, and salt I think… all old tech they work ok but there is better and cheaper after market stuff

    Crystal ProPure – ozone with a mixing chamber, again middle of the road.

    Ozone – While potentially this is good tech it’s too expensive to put an effective system on a hot tub, it would cost several thousand, what you get on hot tubs is a basic ozone generator with an injector and absorption system. to do it right you would need to treat the air going in, then have primary, secondary and tertiary absorption tanks, and ozone off gas destruct system. No ozone system on the hot tub market is anything special.

    Frog is a chlorine dispenser and might use silver zink or copper ion

    Nature 2 is again ion

    none of these are worth buying.

    the best system is mineral salt or enzyme and you can use them on any tub, i do like the ion minerals as well but again you can buy these and use them on any tub…

  515. Reply
    admin January 20, 2019 at 6:05 pm

    Hey Marty

    Tons of difference.

    The best thing about Hot Springs, in my opinion, is the brochure and the marketing. The reason I started this forum was these hot tub makers that are owned by big equity investment companies making these mid-grade spas and selling them as a top end with massive spend on marketing, spin, branding and advertising.

    Shells:

    HS – thinner shell supported by sprayed on rigidizer then prop supported with high-density foam and pedestals, inexpensive.
    MS – Hand rolled self-supporting Fiberglass shell with vinyl ester resin core, expensive and strong.

    Parts –

    HS – Proprietary parts made to just fit that spa, the Invensys control system had massive failure rates on the heater relay board and because all the parts are made to just fit that spa you pay through the nose for the parts, the circ pump is a tiny little cheap plastic pump that has a high failure rate and again you pay way more than it is worth because you have no options… read this article about proprietary parts and why to avoid them.

    MS – Balboa heating and control system, arguably the best heating and control system in the world. CMP jets all readily available parts from the biggest OEM parts maker.

    Insulation:

    HS – uses a poly based foam that also helps keep the thin shell from falling apart, the problem is if you ever get a leak you are screwed, you can’t find the leak and if you manage to its a nightmare to chip the foam out and repair.

    MS – Uses Icynene foam this more expensive foam is environmentally safe and never hardens making it easy to diagnose and fix and issues.

    Reliability:

    In Nov 2017 I went through two hot tub discussion forums in the section where people have broken hot tubs and are asking for help.

    Look at the real data…
    I went to the first 10 pages of the two top forums and only looked at who is needing help fixing their broken spas… this is a true unbiased snapshot of what is working and what is falling apart…

    Guess what !!!

    The Watkins group (Hot Springs, Caldera, hot spot etc) is arguably the worst with a whopping 34% of the posts asking for help fixing these midgrade spas with all the fancy branding and marketing… The Jacuzzi arguably the next biggest culprit of supplying mid grade spas wrapped in gorgeous branding and advertising is the second worst with 21% of the broken spas. These numbers are wholly disproportionate with their market share these tubs are failing again and again.

    Meanwhile, there are 0 customers with Master Spas, and around 2% for the other brands I recommend asking for help because their hot tubs are working reliably…

  516. Reply
    admin January 19, 2019 at 5:30 pm

    Hi David.

    Of the two the TS is a better tub I don’t like either because I don’t like loungers but if your set on a 2 lounge tub the TS has a lot more of the expensive hi flow jets, and those goofy half loungers on the artesian are not going to be comfortable.

  517. Reply
    admin January 19, 2019 at 5:27 pm

    Nope.

    They should at this time of year have antifreeze in the tub or have it vacuumed out at least.

    right away hang a trouble light under the skirt with a 40 or 60 w old school bulb make sure it is safe and not going to catch fire πŸ™‚

    You might be fine but if it leaks when you fill it return it and get a new one.

  518. Reply
    admin January 19, 2019 at 5:23 pm

    Hey Hank

    Yeah I’m a Grimsby boy lived there for 20 years went to Orchard park secondary in Stoney Creek πŸ™‚

    Yeah, sunrise is okish but nothing to write home about. The insulation is pants a couple inches of blue max or Rockwool is never gonna meet code in your area for a house, they are lucky if they are getting R8 you need R-24 for code… the parts are good, and the glue and clamp the plumbing but the shell is a thin cradle supported type.

  519. Reply
    admin January 19, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    Hi Floyd.

    I’m with you the bullfrog is a lot of spinny marketing add to that the thin plastic shell that needs pedestal supported to keep it from falling apart and it’s not on my tier one, not a bad spa and better than a lot fo them but nothing special. read this review.

    Compare that to the master and they both use the same control and heating system, insulation, and they both glue and clamp the plumbing but master hand rolls a self-supporting fiberglass shell… expensive but they are way stronger and have last a lot longer. have a boo at the master build here:

    From a performance standpoint you want to look for these things for massage:

    neck you need 4 of the 3.5″ jets don’t go to any that have the little jets they don’t move enough water to handle big muscle masses like shoulder and neck.

    for feet you want the big monster 10″ jets with a diverter so you can put a whole pump to them, I use the big foot jets for my lower back to cause they just flow stupid amounts of water. The twilight, in particular, is a killer Bullfrog does not do anything in the super high end like this.

  520. Reply
    admin January 19, 2019 at 1:10 pm

    The HL series and the Premium leisure look the same on the outside, that the problem πŸ™‚ they all look good πŸ™‚

    Under the hood they are vastly different, the PL is a thin cradel supported shell the HL is a hand-rolled self-supporting shell. The insulation again massive difference and I know yer Florida but your winters are still chilly at night.

    The Catalina is better but again nowhere near the build standard of the good spas like Artesian Master, etc.

    Man go see these guys, they are good and carry good lines and can easily serve you there.

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps

  521. Reply
    admin January 17, 2019 at 6:00 pm

    Yeah, I saw it. They basically replaced the smaller pipes going to each jet by making it an integrated manifold…

    when I did the calculations for line loss the worst was the large 2″ pipe from the pump to the manifold, the flow rate through the smaller 3/4″ pipes from the manifold to the jets were actually lower loss per foot so really they took out some of the pipes where it was more efficient and replaced it with more of the 2″ pipe that was less efficient πŸ™‚

    I don’t think they really made much difference in the overall performance, they spin the tech in a cool way that I think is a bit misleading.. They infer that because there is less pipe for the water to travel through there is less resistance… Sounds like a no brainer right?

    Now let’s take a scenario where there is 10′ of 2″ pipe going to a 10 port manifold. Then let’s say there is 10′ of pipe from the manifold to each jet. So you could say there is a total of 110 feet of pipe for the water to go through but the reality is there is 20′ of pipe from the pump to the jet because most of the pipe is in parallel so when the water hits the manifold it splits into 10 different streams…

    Now in Scenario 2 we run 20′ of big pipe to the manifold in the back of the seat and then only 2″-3″ of pipe to each jet so the total amount of pipe is only 22′ or so but that did not change the fact that the water still had to travel the same 20′ from the pump to the jet and now it spent most of its time in the big pipe moving a high volume that has higher loss than the little pipe carrying a low volume which has less resistance!

    But the spin marketing bullshit would be to say that we reduced the amount of pipe by almost 100′ and therefore reduced the amount of pipe that the water had to go through and therefore increased the efficiency but the math simply does not hold up πŸ™‚

    I don’t mind Bullfrog, they are def better than a lot of stuff out there I don’t like the ABS plastic pedestal supported shell, it’s cheap and no where near as strong as a good shell but I hate the bullshit marketing taking a little bit of science and spinning it into a pile of bullshit to confuse people.

  522. Reply
    admin January 16, 2019 at 1:26 pm

    The nice thing about Costco… Cancel it they will refund it…

  523. Reply
    admin January 16, 2019 at 12:18 pm

    Hey Kieth

    Its really depends on the area and the dealer. The truth is a lot of dealers local or not just are not great at the customer care end of their business. If an area has loads of independent service guys it usually means the local guy’s service sucks, or in places like LA that the cost of doing business is so damn high that people are buying from out fo market where costs are better πŸ™‚

    I have 2 independent service guys down there Boise spa repair and pro spa Boise registered with the site so you will be fine no matter. These independents kick ass and have better service levels than the retailers usually because its all they do.

  524. Reply
    admin January 14, 2019 at 2:23 pm

    Naw they all have the fundamental things the same, its just jetting, performance, and bells and whistles that change through the various lines.

  525. Reply
    admin January 13, 2019 at 4:35 pm

    That’s awesome! and thanks again for posting!

    Have a great day

  526. Reply
    admin January 13, 2019 at 4:34 pm

    I know the guys in Atlanta Spa and leisure I was at their store March 2018 doing an inspection, great guys and take good care of customers.

    The big differences with the Maxx and American whirlpool (they are out fo the same factory) is the shell is a thinner cradle supported shell, they don’t bother to clamp the plumbing lines and the insulation is crap, it would never meet code even in Georgia for a house. it’s nowhere near as well built.

  527. Reply
    admin January 13, 2019 at 12:13 pm

    Before the buyout from the jacuzzi group, it would have been upper mid but now? Typically these guys build mid grade with big branding and marketing money super slick advertising and brochures and sell these mid-grade spas at top prices and use lots of proprietary parts to screw you for life πŸ™‚

    There are better choices for sure, there is a beachcomber dealer near you, great build, mid-performance but overpriced. then there is an Artesian dealer which would be my goto for a local supplier and then a Marquis dealer which would be my number 2.

    depending on what you want ie high-end therapy massage or just a good reliable all-round hot tub there are good options around you.

    You also have a crazy number of independant service guys down there, so you can save a lot by buying from out of the area where the cost of doing business is not so outrageous and save a lot of money and still get great back up. the truth is in these areas where they have loads of service guys yer golden, these service guys are better then most retailers service…

  528. Reply
    admin January 13, 2019 at 10:11 am

    Hey Andrew

    No way the TS kicks the HL all over the place, the Jets are better the pressure is better the neck jet seat has 4 of the 3.5″ jets where the HL has 2 of the 1″ jets, also the monster jet system kills the HL… no idea why they would push you into that tub unless its a stock thing… TS kills the HL…

    don’t go to the 8.73, the 8.2 again outperforms it, more pumps are not better its a marketing ploy appealing to the more is better idea!

  529. Reply
    admin January 13, 2019 at 10:03 am

    Hey Andre

    Yeah the same tub, I don’t know why guys private brand… The Nordic shell saves you a lot and the insulation saves you a lot but for sure the Clarity at that price is a better buy, I love the layout of that line, big open footwell and tons and tons of room. the guys selling the Clarity can also get you a getaway Bar Harbour, similar to the clarity is size and space but the shell is plastic like the Nordic but with better insulation.

  530. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 8:48 pm

    They should be fine if you run onto trouble hit me up I’ve got a few service guys registered around there.

  531. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 8:46 pm

    Both built very similar but the artesian would edge the coast out a bit.

  532. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 8:45 pm

    Man honestly 130km might as well be 3000 both are going to use local resources to service you.

  533. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 8:43 pm

    No dude they do an 87×87 in a 120v model and a220v twin pump.

    Check out the bar harbour. Super roomy good jetting and performance.

    But the nordic is good too.

  534. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 2:09 pm

    Hey Kevin

    You have a power issue, brownouts or spikes or noise from an industrial installation feeding back onto your grid.

    or… you have a badly misdiagnosed circulation problem πŸ™‚

    did the scenario play out like this?

    kept getting flow errors… they blamed you and your filter maintenance, then started replacing parts but never figured it out???

    Stay away from circ pumps on any brand… biggest scam going they are crap, fail often and will give you nothing but headaches… they used to be standard on LSX and still are on Hot springs, caldera limelight spas jacuzzi etc its why those brands have so many people on the forums looking for help πŸ™‚

    That tub used Balboa control and heating system, that’s the best system money can buy so there is something else at play here or yer just unlucky as hell πŸ™‚

    Yer right though this industry is a shit show and no good reason why…

    As for the price hard to say I’m really not up on pricing for brands but I would expect it to be near the 10k mark?

  535. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 2:02 pm

    Hey Jeff

    Take the trip to Sacramento. Todd up there does a bang-up job and takes great care of customers, there are tons of service guys all around that area and he can get you the right pricing on the Twilights.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
    Remove
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    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  536. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 1:58 pm

    Hot Springs, I would not touch with a ten-foot pole, every year they try and get me to sell their line. these heavily marketed brands full of proprietary parts are great for people who dont know anything about hot tubs, the marketing and branding makes it a no brainer just sing the song and drink the koolaid πŸ™‚ IMHO these are some of the best corporate profit companeis and worst for the end user. Bullfrog is similar but the parts and insulation are better, the only issue I have with them is the shell construction… These thin shells that need pedestals to keep them from falling apart are just not the best option. I’m assuming you saw them at Paradice landscapes? they also carry Coast that’s a better option. or there is a beachcomber dealer but man they are so overpriced but at least they are well built!

    The rest are just not something I would look at you have a jacuzzi, Arctic, Maxx and a few others but none of them are great spas just great marketers and branders.

    Aloha Hot Tubs / Beachcomber Regina
    Status: Unverified

    Sells beachcomber, personally haven’t been to the store.

    Remove
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    1321 Winnipeg St, Regina, SK S4R 1K2
    http://www.alohahottubs.ca

  537. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 1:50 pm

    Hi Kevin

    Dichlor is easier on the spa for sure but a pain to add in.

    the trichlor could void your warranty if you got up to crazy high levels and it damaged your spa, but at the level we are talking about (.5ppm) there is no risk of damage, you will find it bleaches out the plastic a bit but I’ve used it for decades despite this and have thousands of customers pon it anbd zero issues ever.

  538. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 1:45 pm

    Hi Ron.

    This is always my argument about these brands using proprietary parts, always a pain in the ass.

    I wish I had some help for you but on this one, I’m afraid there is little I can do.

    go see these guys they can help you if you want to trade it in.

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    the last 3 months we have sent them 7 to 8 leads and all but one were sold tubs.
    Remove
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    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    5.0View in Google Maps

  539. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 1:40 pm

    Hey Jim

    yeah, guys do this goofy branding sometimes, everyone likes to be the big shot πŸ™‚ but they are all the same.

    price is good for that unit and its def one of my top build quality tubs.

  540. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 1:36 pm

    Meh, not overly impressed. I must say you caught me out here and I had to spend a couple hours doing some research on them.

    The Acrylabond is a polyester resin and it has been problematic, it’s basically a cheaper way of making a shell and it’s not strong enough to hold its own weight with water so it needs pedestal supporting and high-density foam to keep it from falling apart. I have a seen a lot of failures with this type of shell and personally would not go to anything but a hand-rolled fiberglass self-supporting shell. I also really like to see a vinyl ester resin layer between the acrylic and the structural layers and they don’t do this either.

    They do use Balboa controls and glue and clamp the plumbing but use gecko XP2E pumps which I have not had great luck with and they just screw them to a rubber block there are a lot better ways of mounting that will; make the spa a lot quieter. I also don’t like the plumbing layout, for efficiency I like to see the pups mounted with clear runs into the intake these guys put sweep 90’s right in front of the pump which is better than a sharp 90 but really not great for good flow rates.

    Insulation wise its def not upper end, basically R10 from the foam board and maybe R-2 or 3 from the little bit of foam on the shell, likely less than half what code would be for a house in your area so certainly not good enough for a hot tub which loses heat much more quickly due to he bigger temperature difference.

    Performance wise again middle of the road, mostly low flow jets with a few of the good therapy massage jets.

    In my opinion, its middle of the road like most of the stuff out there. The problem with these little guys is they just can’t afford to innovate or even to adopt innovation when it comes down the pipe, I hate saying it because I like to support local but not when it’s at such a cost in performance and quality.

  541. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 12:33 pm

    Hey Shelby

    There is a cost dealer in Henderson called hot tub liquidators there is also an Artesian dealer called creative spa designs they are your top two choices locally.

  542. Reply
    admin January 11, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    Dude, I have a gem in your area.

    Todd is tops I have sent him tons of customers and never a bad word back, he also has service all through that area.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  543. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 11:48 am

    Hi Garry

    Man the Dynasty I saw was a train wreck and read this post from a guy who bought one…

    I lived in West Sussex for a decade, sure miss the UK sometimes.

    I got friends in low places im gonna reach out and see what i can do for you.

  544. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 11:35 am

    Its not a bad option certainly the right price I know they go for very little money what kind of price did you get?

  545. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 9:49 am

    Man, that’s the terrible trio… I hate this asshole world where marketing and bullshit trumps over good solid well built products. Proprietary parts with built-in planned obsolescence and loads of borderline tech spun up by marketing asshats into half-truths designed to fool the public.

    I’m gonna get my main guy to hunt the area a little better and see what we can find on the ground near you.

  546. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 9:27 am

    Checkout these guys there a bit away but all I got near you. they are great guys and do a good job!

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
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    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  547. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 9:26 am

    Hey Jill

    Thanks for the info I have notated thier file!

    try these guys, they are a bit out of the way but good solid people, tell them Chris sent you and let me know what they back with for pricing,

    Leisure Works LLC
    Remove
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    41430 Grand River Ave a, Novi, MI 48375
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 248-348-7727
    4.7View in Google Maps

  548. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 9:20 am

    Hey Kami!

    Sorry for the delay in responding the festive holiday season got the better of me πŸ™‚

    The legacy is a good line but they only sell it through a couple dealers.

    The price seems okish I don’t know the cost or features. let me look into this I can likely find something for you there and there are 4 independent service guys I have registered with the site so I’m sure we can get you taken care of for service after the fact.

  549. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 9:11 am

    Hi Keith.

    The Therapool is awesome, its built right has good parts is insulated right and has a great therapy massage seat and loads of space for a small cross trainer.

    cover wise that is a small enough spa that with the 2 piece cover and cover lifters you are fine. the Axis cover is great for the big spas and will work fine for you but its not critical on a spa that size. The covanna is a risk so far they have been problematic with a high failure rate and lousy backup care.

    and thanks for the Gas πŸ™‚

    have a great day!

  550. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 9:06 am

    Hey Tony.

    Thermospas is a nogo on my list. So is Hot Springs both for different reasons, HS because of the parts and it’s massively overpriced and frankly mid-grade, they spend too much on brand awareness, advertising and marketing and not enough on just building a great spa, also on the data sample we pulled from discussion forums more people are on there asking for help for broken hot springs tubs than any other brand my a massive margin… and thermo spas because it’s just not well built or insulated.

    Master, Artesian and Coast are all well built.

    of the three Master has the best support if you call the factories they are the only ones with a proper help center with a department that just deals with the public. the other two rely on dealers so if you have a good dealer great if not too bad πŸ™‚

    if you are looking entry level the getaway hot tubs are unbeatable and at the high-end therapy massage the Twilight series from Master is my top tub but in the middle, the 3 would all be similar.

    I don’t know the other 2 dealers but the guys but Aqua Haven area good bunch of people, I’ve met them and sent them a pile of customers and they do a good job and know their stuff.

  551. Reply
    admin January 9, 2019 at 8:55 am

    Man tough area.

    I got nothing in my top tier down there for you and the only thing I would even consider is the BullFrog -Pensacola Pools Inc.

    The shell construction is not my preferred method but other than that it’s pretty well built here is a review

  552. Reply
    admin January 8, 2019 at 1:31 pm

    Hi Terri

    Spa Guard is a brand of chemicals, they sell everything from ph up and down to chlorine and they have an enzyme as well… I don’t know how effective the enzyme is, it’s tricky to get one that works well in the heat and survives the chlorine as well. I have tried a lot of them and the Spa Marvel works super well.

    You could use the Spa Guard PH down, alkalinity increaser (ph stabilizer) non-chlorine shock, test kits and chlorine tabs with the Spa Marvel or the Aquafinesse.

    I like either the Aquafinese or the Spa Marvel and the spa marvel is a lot cheaper. You can buy it here and it helps support the site!

    here is a tip sheet for Spa Marvel specifically for the Master spas with the eco pure filtration, it works super well…

    SPA MARVEL QUICK AND EASY DIRECTIONS

    Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

    1. Remove Filters
    2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
    3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
    4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
    5. Refill the tub

    Spa Marvel Startup

    1. Heat water to desired temp
    2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
    3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
    4. Use test strips to test water
    5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
    6. Run pumps for 5 min
    7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
    8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
    9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

    Weekly

    1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
    2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
    3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

    ** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

    **RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

    **EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

    **IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE – MAKE SURE YOU ARE PUTTING 3 ENOUGH CHLORINE IN TO MAINTAIN 1PPM

    ** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH WITH MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF DETERGENT AND ALWAYS DO A SECOND RINSE, THE JETS ARE POWERFUL THEREFORE THEY PULL SOAP FROM THE CLOTHES AND IT’LL MAKE YOUR WATER FOAMY!!

    **IT’S SMART TO ONLY TEST YOUR WATER ONCE PER WEEK. ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS CAN SLIGHTLY ALTER THE PH AND ALKALINITY BUT THIS CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE JETS ARE RUNNING. YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDOSE YOUR WATER WITH CHEMICALS.
    ***LOCAL GOVERNMENT GUIDELINES SHOULD OVERRIDE THIS ADVICE EVEN IF IT IS YEARS OUT OF DATE AND TOTALLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY.

  553. Reply
    admin January 7, 2019 at 4:38 pm

    Hi Connie

    use standard mode unless you go away for vacay then goto economy, also in the summer you can use economy when its hot

  554. Reply
    admin January 7, 2019 at 4:37 pm

    Hey Andre

    Yeah, Nordic is really close to my top tier, definitely a lot better than most of the stuff out there. The only thing keeping them out of tier one is the insulation and again it’s not the worst. Those roto mold shells, if they are thick enough, are great.

    There is another line called getaway spas that I think they sell at Croker sales, same molds (I think they just outright copied Nordic:-) but much nicer colors, they use a sea salt color that’s a little more expensive to buy because the white is always pricey but it beats the hell out fo the Nordic colors everything else is the same except the insulation which is way better… like a $300 upgrade and almost twice the R-value.

    check them out

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  555. Reply
    admin January 7, 2019 at 2:51 pm

    Hi Laura

    I saw these at Vegas this year and I like the cover except they were heavy! Unfortunately, there are just too many other issues… The two big issues I have is the insulation, although where you live that’s not such an issue πŸ™‚ I also will not buy or sell or recommend a spa brand that does not use Balboa control and heating systems.. they are just miles above everything else out there.

    You have almost nothing in retailers there but you have 3 independent service guys so if you can find something good with a good parts list you should be ok for back up!

  556. Reply
    admin January 7, 2019 at 2:33 pm

    Hey Joel

    A new area for me! I had to spend a bit of time researching so apologize to the 20 people who responses are late πŸ™‚

    Not much around you dude, up in Roanoke, there are the usual overpriced over branded mid grade stuff like Hot Springs, Sundance, jacuzzi but all these guys use proprietary parts which is a scam in my opinion and mid-grade building.

    I also found a service company called Spa Med-X in Gretna, so you can buy from out of the market, these little independents usually have great service levels because its all they specialize in! so if you stick to a good brand with good reliable OEM parts you can get a tub from away which sometimes gets you a better price…

    The only local stuff I would touch would be the Artesians

    Aqua Pros Pools & Spas, Inc
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    1015 Apperson Dr, Salem, VA 24153
    http://www.aquapros.com
    +1 540-389-1387
    4.9View in Google Maps

  557. Reply
    admin January 4, 2019 at 6:41 pm

    Shit sucks dude the only one I would even consider is the Beachcomber but they are so overpriced! performance wise they are low end but at least they are built well.

    let me see what I can find

  558. Reply
    admin January 4, 2019 at 6:39 pm

    Hey Scott

    It depends on the area you live in. some areas have great resources of independent service guys which frankly usually do a better job of taking care of you than dealers because it’s all they do πŸ™‚ SF has tons of independents literally I have 4 registered with me within 10 miles of you and 15 within 40 miles… service is not going to be your issue…

    Your issue is going to be the price. everything is so expensive there.

    the reason so many independent service companies exist is that most people buy from out of the market… The only retailers left there are the guys selling mid-grade crap with great branding at outrageous margins πŸ™‚

    Sundance and Jacuzzi are the same parent co’s same corporate template of proprietary parts and heavy branding costs and Hot Springs is the same ilk. both these groups are the whole reason I started this blog!!! so much spent on branding and advertising and marketing and frankly in my opinion producing mid grade spas that they charge 2x what they are worth and then screw you for parts for life. I would not touch either of them.

    go see this guy. I know him and trust him. he takes good care of customers, yer a bit out of his area but if you ever have trouble hit me up i got service guys all around you.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
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    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  559. Reply
    admin January 4, 2019 at 6:22 pm

    Wow, tough call.

    These are two great spas both using good parts and good build. While we could split hairs about the filtration (I prefer the suction side on the LSX because it filters before the equipment) and normal shapes (curve will date the purchase as it goes in and out of style and cost you a ton for covers) and the layout (second-time buyers really want that foot space and the Curve is a bit cramped for foot space) the reality is I’m splitting hairs, neither of these tubs will disappoint they are both high-end good tubs.

    The couple things that edge the Phelps out front for me are:

    1. The neck jet system on the curve is 2 low flow jets… It won’t really do squat while the LSX has four mid flow jets that flow 3 times more water, its one of the nicest therapy seats out there its the same seat as my favorite Twilight spa…

    2. The LSX has a lot more of the expensive hi flow jets I think there are only about 8 in the curve and the rest are the inexpensive little jets the LSX has like 18 and again the corner seat is full of them. that seat rocks.

    3. Master has a good customer direct support system, just that extra layer of coverage.

  560. Reply
    admin January 4, 2019 at 4:22 pm

    Hey Frank

    Almost got killed in Chicago buying scalper tickets to a Leafs/Blackhawks game a few years back πŸ™‚

    I got some guys I know not too far from you, there is a guy in Chicago doing Marquis that would be the only other one I would even look at.

    Hit these guys up, tell them Chris says hi πŸ™‚

    Master Spas of Southern WI
    2242 W Bluemound Road Suite A, Waukesha, WI, 53186
    Phone 414-607-8827
    Fax :414-607-8826
    Email kwhueff@gmail.com
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    2242 W Bluemound Rd Suite A, Waukesha, WI 53186
    masterspaswi.com
    +1 414-607-8827
    4.6View in Google Maps

  561. Reply
    admin January 4, 2019 at 4:16 pm

    Hi David

    I am not a fan of the Arctic at all.. great shell great marketing and the rest is crap. no clamps on the plumbing almost no insulation and some spinmaster story about free heat :-)and worst of all its full of cheap proprietary parts, the best thing about that hot tub is the brochure… The Nordic is good solid built tub with a great OEM parts list and glued and clamped plumbing, the only thing is the insulation is a bit goofy… there is only 1/2″ of HD foam on the shell so around r-4 then that batton with no vapor barrier might give ya another R-4.

    If you want to look at a solid roto mold look at the Getaway spa from these guys… Same as the Nordic from a build quality standpoint and parts but way better insulation. They also carry higher end twilight therapy massage spas.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
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    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  562. Reply
    admin January 4, 2019 at 4:06 pm

    Hey Scott

    There is a top service guy down there that can take great care of you if you buy a brand with a standard parts list.

    The only other brand I would even look at around there would be the Marquis and after the tub I got my hands on last month and shot this review of they are right on the edge of my recommended list, the QC was abysmal.

    Crystal Clear Pool Service
    $125 call out $85/hr.
    $300 delivery darren ccpools67@yahoo.com

  563. Reply
    admin January 3, 2019 at 12:49 pm

    Hey Duane

    I would not have the jacuzzi in my list, these guys are great at marketing, branding, advertising, and build what in my opinion is a middle of the road tub full of proprietary parts.

    Both The master and the Marquis build with very similar technology and parts and insulation systems, the master has better factory direct support if your dealer is not up to speed and the performance of the two tubs is quite different. The twilight has a lot more of the expensive hi flow therapy jets whereas the Marquis has a lot fo the cheap low flow and mid flow jets, I would expect it to be a grand or more less expensive but if massage is what you are aftert hen the Twilight hands down.

  564. Reply
    admin January 2, 2019 at 9:16 am

    Hi Adam

    Happy new year!

    Man, I saw one of those American Whirlpools, does not surprise me that it fell apart on delivery πŸ™‚

    Marquis is good on paper but there are some issues with quality control I got my hands on a brand new vector 21 and it was a hot mess.

    The Coast is a good spa but they are plagued with bad reviews for quality control and back up, been talking with them a lot and going to get down to see the factory soon.

    Master is one of my top picks, it has the same build standard and parts as the Coast and the marquis but a lot longer in business a lot bigger and a much better customer care system. also if you go to thier high ends like Twilight they are the top performance spas out there.

    Arctic and Hydropool would be on my great marketing companies mid to low end hot tubs πŸ™‚ Both suffer substandard insulation systems. The Arctic is full of cheap proprietary parts and does not even clamp the plumbing lines, the Hyrdropool has a prop supported shell and so many goofy old technology issues. Companies like this that spend more on fooling you with gimmicks and spin than building great tubs was the whole reason I started this site… Marketing sucks, it has gotten so good at fooling people and so expensive that if you run a great marketing program you can’t afford to build a great tub… all the big brands with the heavy brand awareness and advertising and marketing make crap tubs…

  565. Reply
    admin January 2, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Hi Josh

    Everything about that spa stresses me out, its a thin cradel supported shell instead of a hand-rolled self-supporting one, the insulation in Vancouver will kill you, yeah you don’t get -20 but you get cold code for a house there is minimum R20 and that tub will lose heat much more quickly because of the larger temp difference, that tub might hit R-6 tops… Pressure filtration is nothing… its a gimmick, people love to hear pressure filter system because it sounds good the other type suction side simply means the water is filtered before the pump on the suction side of the system, instead of pressure filtration where all the debris goes through your equipment before being filtered… its old tech and in no way better. check out this review

    Comox Fireplace in Courtenay sells Artesian much much better spa, Or A Coast from Calais Pools in Nanaimo.

    Where you are you are going to need to have a local service guy so its key to stay with good standard parts which both those units have, I have 3 independant service guys out there that can take good care of you so hit me up if you need service.

  566. Reply
    admin December 30, 2018 at 2:27 pm

    HI Lee

    The So Cal market is a goofy one. because of the high property values and the high cost of doing business the only retailers that are left are the ones carrying the heavily branded super overpriced mid grade spas πŸ™‚

    When I look around your area and see like 25 independent hot tub service companies and very few retailers per capita it tells me that most guys are not buying from the local market.

    I would look at the 8.2, not the 8.3 more pumps do not make better performing tubs, its a gimmick, the 8.2 has better power and better performance, in fact, it beats the 8.2 for the consumers digest best buy award.

    Let me see what I can find you.

  567. Reply
    admin December 28, 2018 at 12:03 pm

    Hi Cole

    the Artesian 850B is a solid well-built spa the p[rice is around where it should be. but I really do not like the foot domes, most companies went away from these decades ago… you trip power the damn things all the frigging time, it will do your head in and those little jets will just tickle yer feet you need big hi flow jets for feet.

    This is the South seas line, mid-level performance that TS 8 is more comparable to the artesian elite spas, it will absolutely blow the 850 away the jetting is insane and the foot jet system flows about 20x more water… that tub is nuts and that price is super good… make sure its running and you see it.

    call this guy he can help move them and take good care of you for service i also have 8 other companies there that can help if you dont like this guy.

    The Hot Tub Guy
    -Service Call Fee – $125-$150 inc/ 30 minutes
    -Hourly Rate After Service Fee – $100/hr
    -Will Move And Deliver Spas
    -Balboa, Gecko Packs
    Scott Ensign
    Email Scott@hottubwa.com
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    13405 32nd Dr SE, Bothell, WA 98012
    hottubwa.com
    +1 425-610-6616
    5.0View in Google Maps

  568. Reply
    admin December 26, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    I don’t know enough about it to help you, dude.

    but if you learn more update me πŸ™‚

  569. Reply
    admin December 26, 2018 at 12:20 pm

    Hi I’m Sorry for the delay

    Busy time of the year! πŸ™‚

    A tricky area you do have local guys that sell Coast, CK Spas and Piscines Val-Morin Signature.

    Not much else there that I would touch.

  570. Reply
    admin December 26, 2018 at 12:16 pm

    SPA MARVEL QUICK AND EASY DIRECTIONS

    Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

    1. Remove Filters
    2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
    3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
    4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
    5. Refill the tub

    Spa Marvel Startup

    1. Heat water to desired temp
    2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
    3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
    4. Use test strips to test water
    5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
    6. Run pumps for 5 min
    7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
    8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
    9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

    Weekly

    1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
    2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
    3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

    ** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

    **RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

    **EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

    **IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE

    ** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH