Articles
Hot Tub Buyers Guide
Buying a Hot Tub is a Nightmare
The truth is, there are so many side track issues, exaggerations and outright misinformation perpetuated by manufacturers and retailers alike that even an intelligent, diligent researcher does not have a hope in hell of making an educated buying decision.
Part of the problem is a lot of the retailers don’t really know that much about the hot tub industry or what really makes a great hot tub. For the most part, they are just regurgitating the pitch they got from the manufacturer when they bought the line of spas they are selling.
So what really matters?
When you're shopping for a hot tub, you'll hear all about seating capacity, next generation water chemistry, fancy lighting and a host of other things the salesperson will use to try to get you to buy. What you won't usually hear about are the most important things that comprise a solidly built hot tub.
There are five things which make for a solid hot tub that will last you for decades so satisfy these five conditions and then, once you have narrowed it down to quality built tubs, you can focus on other things like seating and lighting. You want:
- A self-supporting shell
- Glued AND clamped plumbing lines
- Compression fit jets
- Quality OEM components
- Full foam open cell insulation
A strong, self-supporting shell
The vast majority of hot tub shells are made from layering acrylic over a stronger compound, such as fiberglass or polycarbonate. There are also shells which are made with rotationally molded plastic but acrylic shells make up 90+ percent of what's out in the market. When an acrylic hot tub shell is made, it's heated in a huge oven and then vacuum formed into a mold to form the shape of the hot tub and this acrylic sheet is incredibly thin and by definition incredibly weak so the strength of the shell comes from the material that is bonded to the acrylic.
Fiberglass is still the most common backing used on hot tub shells but not all fibreglass is created equally. Cheaper shells will have a single layer or two layers of fiberglass, whereas better quality shells will usually use three layers, which is the most effective way to build a strong hot tub shell. Some manufacturers have had good luck using a polycarbonate backing on the acrylic but regardless of which manufacturing process is used to create the shell, we want a strong shell that's going to last for decades.
The big problem is how to know whether you have a strong shell or not in the tub that you're looking at? That's where the term self-supporting shell comes from and you'll hear us use this term quite a bit on our site. A self-supporting shell simply means that the shell will support the body of water without collapsing, even if there are no extra supports at it. If you remove one or more sides from a hot tub and take a look, particularly underneath the seats, and you don't see any additional support blocks or you don't see any portions of the frame coming up to support the shell, then you know this is a self-supporting shell and by definition, it's a strong shell.
On the other hand, if you see support blocks of any type, whether they are wood, plastic, or even hard foam, or you see a support cradle, that means the shell itself is not strong enough to support the water load by itself. Keep in mind that we're not so much concerned about the supports themselves as we are about determining whether or not we have a strong shell and this is the primary indicator.
If you have a weak shell, then you're very likely to experience some form of cracking in the shell within seven to ten years. Sometimes these cracks manifest themselves in a very clear way, but the more far more common problem we see is micro-cracking. That means very tiny cracks, usually around the curves of the seat or more frequently around the jets. This cracking around the jets is known as spider webbing, and it will result in a leak around the jet and will play havoc with the underside of your hot tub. It's going to cause wood frames to rot, steel frames to rust, and composite frames to warp. Unfortunately, there is no way to reliably repair these type of cracks, because there's simply not enough material in the shell.
So when you're out hot tub shopping, ask the salesperson to take one or two sides off the tub and look inside. If you see any form of support blocks under that shell, start looking at something else.
Glued and CLAMPED plumbing lines
If you are building a home then, at some point during construction, a plumbing inspector will come and inspect the plumbing and, if they see any soft hose plumbing joints without clamps, the inspection will fail until clamps have been added to all soft lines. That’s because the home building industry is regulated so inspections are done pretty much every step of the way and a core component of a properly built plumbing system is clamps at every joint where a softer style hose is used.
The hot tub industry on the other hand is not regulated so manufacturers can do pretty much anything they want and that means that most manufacturers forego clamps on all the lines knowing that glue alone will prevent leaks for the first 5-7 years until the warranty has expired. The problem with a lack of clamps is that with hot water running through the hoses, the hoses are going to get softer and water will work its way up between the hose and the barbed fitting on the jet. Over time that will cause the glue between the hose and the jet fitting to break down and in seven or eight years you'll be dealing with a leak and keep in mind that every jet in a hot tub will have two joints, one at the manifold and one at the jet. So that means if you have a hot tub that has, for example 40 jets, you have 80 potential leak points. On the other hand a properly clamped line is never going to leak because the line is crimped it onto the jet fitting and there is no way that water is going to work its way past the clamp.
Some manufacturers have moved away from standard vinyl hose with clamps towards a product called Shur-Grip and this is simply slightly more rigid hose with a spiral reinforcement and these hoses are better than unclamped vinyl but make no mistake even this type of hose without a clamp can't measure up to a properly clamped plumbing joint.
So when you're out hot tub shopping tell the salesperson to pull aside off the hot tub and have a look for clamps on the hoses which run from the manifolds to the jets. If you don't see spring type clamps on all the joints then you're looking at a tub which is going to leak at some point so it's time to look somewhere else.
Compression fit jets
For a very long time all hot tub jets were made in a two-piece style. There was the jet itself and then there was a large nut which held the jet in place. The jet was placed into the hole in the hot tub and sealed at the front with either silicone or a silicone type gasket. Then there was a silicone bead placed around the jet on the back of the shell and a large nut was put in place and tightened down and you were depending on that silicone to provide a seal and stop the hot tub from leaking around the jet housing.
The problem with this type of seal is twofold. First if you're not very good at maintaining your water chemistry then the water will eat away at the silicone or the silicone gasket. But even if you are really good with your water chemistry these jets will move during the operation of the hot tub. First of all every time you turn the pumps on or off the jet will receive a very slight nudge, just a little bump, due to the sudden pressure change of the water. This by itself doesn't cause a major problem but over a number of years with thousands of cycles of turning the pumps on and off this is going to cause the silicone to eventually break down.
The other problem is that in order to turn a hot tub jet on or off you rotate the jet and if you want to remove the jet from the housing for cleaning, you turn it even more almost like opening a pill bottle - you push and turn to get the jet out of the housing. All this movement combined with the tiny jolts from turning the pumps on and off eventually cause enough silicone breakdown for the jet to leak. At some point you are going to experience jet to shell leaks and once they start they will be constant. You may have one or two start to leak and you'll have those repaired and then in a few months time others will start to leak and it becomes a never-ending cycle.
About 10 years ago a company named CMP developed a compression fit jet and these have proven to be far far more reliable than the older silicone style jets. There is no threading on the jet and it's not held in place by a large nut, instead it's held in place by pressure. During construction a thick polymer collar is placed into the hole that is cut for the jet and then the jet is pressed into the collar and once it’s in place you end up with a perfect seal. These jets have two major advantages over the older two-piece jets. First of all the polymer collars are impervious to poor water chemistry but more importantly, if the jet happens to move because of the pumps turning on or off or from turning the jet itself on or off then the jet is going to seal itself.
One other advantage of compression fit jets (which is actually a double edged sword from the manufacturer's point of view) is that compression fit jets require a strong shell. With the pressure required to press the jet into the collar, if the shell of the hot tub is weak, that amount of pressure is actually going to crack the shell. That's why a lot of manufacturers have not moved compression fit jets despite the fact that it’s actually faster and more economical during the construction phase to build a hot tub with compression fit jets as opposed to the old two-piece style. They do cost the manufacturer a little bit more than the older style two-piece jets but the difference is more than made up by the reduced labor cost of installing them. The downside for the manufacturer is that, in order to use them, they have to build a stronger shell and that costs money!
So when you're out hot tub shopping remove one of the jets from the tub or ask the salesperson to do it and have a look around the jet body. The polymer collars of compression fit jets are typically a medium gray color and the visible portion is slightly thicker than a two-piece jet using silicone or silicone type gasket. If you see that polymer color you know it is a compression fit jet and the added bonus is if you see a tub which has compression fit jets then you know it also has a strong shell. If it doesn't have them then not only are you dealing with an inferior jet system but you're also likely looking at a weak shell and your best bet is to go shopping somewhere else.
OEM components
When you're out hot tub shopping, sales people will often talk about patented this or revolutionary that or some form of next generation equipment. Usually what they're really saying is that the Hot Tub they're trying to sell you will cause you to be inextricably linked to that manufacturer for years to come.
Most hot tub manufacturers don't make the control systems, the pumps, the jets or even the lighting systems in a hot tub. The hot tub manufacturer will make the shell and the frame and then fill it with OEM components from third-party manufacturers like Balboa, Gecko, CMP and Waterways. This works to your advantage because after the warranty. If your hot tub needs replacement parts then those parts are both easy to find and inexpensive.
On the other hand, some manufacturers do create their own components and they will spin this to you as being better. They will give you a bunch of marketing crap to try to convince you that their systems are somehow better or more advanced than the rest of the industry. The truth is none of these revolutionary components can measure up to the quality of the OEM manufacturers who've been doing this for decades and the only result is that you end up paying significantly more for replacement parts down the road.
You see this type of thing a lot when it comes to jets. You'll see terms like patented moto massage or revolutionary power pro jets and they may seem like they will drastically improve the experience in the hot tub. The truth is, they provide very little benefit, but they will cost you a literal fortune when it comes time to replace one. One of these high-end jets can easily cost 3 - $400 whereas a standard waterways or CMP jet can be found online for 20 or 30 bucks.
The added danger of proprietary parts in a hot tub is that often times manufactures will stop using a given subsystem in their hot tubs and then stop making the components themselves. That means you could be stuck in a situation in 8-10 years where you can't even get replacement components.
When you're buying a new hot tub if you stick to brands that use OEM components you can be sure that replacement parts down the road will be both readily available and inexpensive so when you're doing your shopping, ask the sales person about the components and if the tub does use proprietary components sales people will usually brag about it so it’s pretty easy to find out. Then if it does have proprietary components ask yourself if you want to be married to this manufacturer and dealer for the next decade or two while they rake you over the coals for replacement parts.
Full foam insulation
One of the most common things you will hear from salespeople when you’re hot tub shopping is that a full foam insulation system will make repairing a hot tub an absolute nightmare, and this is one of the most frustrating things I hear about because it does have a grain of truth in it, but it's really disingenuous. The truth is a hot tub insulated with good-quality open-cell foam insulation is actually easier to repair than something with perimeter insulation. The key feature of quality open-cell foam is that it never hardens, so for example, if a service technician has to find a leak, then all he or she has to do is trace the wet foam, and that will lead them directly to the source of the leak. They can then repair the leak, remove the wet foam, and re-foam it.
Closed-cell foam, on the other hand, does make repairs a nightmare simply because closed-cell foam will harden in a very short period of time. That not only makes removing the foam really difficult, but it also makes tracing leaks almost impossible because water may leak from one area of the tub and run through gaps in the foam until it drips from the bottom of the foam, and the distance between the drip and the leak can often be measured in feet. That is the grain of truth that salespeople use against full foam in general, but with open-cell foam, it simply doesn't apply. Another reason some manufacturers use closed-cell foam is specifically because it hardens so much that they coat the back of the shell with it to provide extra rigidity for a weak shell.
OK, so if we have to be careful about what type of foam is used for insulation in hot tubs, why not avoid full foam systems completely? The short answer is that foam is not only more efficient but also does a far better job of protecting the equipment in a hot tub. Other types of insulation work by trapping the heat inside the skirting of the hot tub. That means that the electronic and mechanical components of the hot tub are also trapped inside that high heat environment. You will even hear sales people talk about reclaiming heat from the pumps to help with heating the hot tub, but think about that for a second. Any motor, such as the motor in your hot tub pumps, will generate heat, but in order to keep those motors healthy, that heat needs to be dissipated away from the motor. In the case of a perimeter insulation system, the motors are purposely kept inside the heat envelope to assist with healing, but that means that the motors can't properly cool. And the pump motors in a hot tub are simply not designed to run in an environment that hot.
As for R-value, yes, there are indeed perimeter insulation systems, especially the laser-cut systems that fit together extremely well, which can come close to the R-value of a full foam system, but the other side of that coin is that the better the insulation system is, the more heat is going to be trapped inside the skirt, and the hotter the environment is going to be, and as a result, the more it's going to shorten the life of the equipment.
In a well-done full foam system, the foam is sprayed onto the back of the shell and around the plumbing, and on the sides of the tub, where there is no equipment, the cavity is filled completely. However, on the side of the hot tub where the equipment is located after the foam is sprayed, there is a reflective blanket, placed over it to isolate the equipment from the heat of the hot tub. In addition, that side of the hot tub is vented to allow that section to cool. That means lower ambient temperatures and longer-lasting equipment.
So when you're out looking for a hot tub once again, get the sales person to pull a side off the hot tub and check the insulation system. If you see perimeter insulation or reflective mylar blankets with no foam insulation or if you do see foam and feel the insulation and it's hard, then it's time to take a look at something else.
Questions and Answers
Lynn Allen Frick
Jul 12, 2025
I am looking to buy a small two to three person hot tub. After looking at several dealers in the area and using your check list of the five things to look for in a hot tub, I am down to three finalists. I am looking at the Master Spa Gateway series (San Miguel - $6695), Master Spa Twilight Series (2025 240X - $9395) and the Bullfrog A series (A5L - $9100). I am right now leaning towards the Master Spa 240X.
I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
Also, I’ve tried the cost comparison on your new web page and it doesn’t seem to return results.
Thank you.
Chris - Admin
Okay so Master spot beats bullfrog hands down on so many different fronts. You're not talking about a huge privately owned old school manufacturer that's been around for almost 30 years and is the largest in North America versus a relative newcomer that's Equity investment owned. The master has a fully self-supported shell the bullfrog has a much cheaper cradle supported shell. And bullfights even getting absolutely lambasted over the last year seems their quality is really taken a hit but again that's typical of equity investment ownership these guys know the value of marketing and advertising and branding. Second of all your pricing on the Masters is stupid low the Twilight series should not be below $11,000 how the hell did you get pricing like that?
David Kitsap
Jul 12, 2025
My family of four and I would like to purchase a hot tub but are not familiar with hot tubs nor have we ever owned one. We live in British Columbia’s Kootenay region and would prefer a 6-8 person hot tub with quality, durability, and energy efficiency being our top priorities – I don’t want high energy bills nor am i interested in a POS requiring ongoing repairs. The hot tub will be for casual use, with one adult who enjoys jets and one adult who is indifferent about jets, and we don’t want a lounger. Features like built-in stereos, AV packages, and other bells and whistles are not a top priority for us. Although, some lights would be nice as we have kids that would appreciate them.
Our budget is $15-20K CAD, including the steps, cover, and hydraulic lift. At this point in time, we've narrowed it down to Master Spas, Wellis, or Jacuzzi. Jacuzzi ‘J’ series branding and marketing looks great, but when diving into the details, may be puff marketing and could come up short on jets, pump power, and particularly energy efficiency. MS Twilight looks great in all categories, except for maybe challenges with achieving optimal water clarity / balancing? Lastly, Wellis Mandala appears to beat both Jacuzzi and Master Spa hands down in all categories, except affordability.
If you don’t mind, I have two questions for you:
1) My research indicates Wellis is the best hot tub out there. However, your various posts re. the Twilight series, even the recent review of 2025 Twilight Spa are glowing and note it’s the best hot tub out around. Are you able to provide some insight about why the Twilight is the better option of all three?
2) Based on the information I’ve provided, what would be your recommendation for me and why? Feel free to make other brand / model suggestions if I’ve missed the mark. Thank you!
Chris - Admin
Hey David,
Good instincts so far—you're circling some of the big brands, but here's the real breakdown.
Master Spas Twilight
This is my top pick for you, hands down. Built in the U.S., it’s a tank. Self-supporting fiberglass shell (not cradle-supported like most), clamped plumbing lines, full-foam insulation, and standard Balboa controls and Waterway jets—zero proprietary nonsense. That means fewer repairs, easier service, and parts are cheap and widely available.
As for water care: the new Master salt system changes the game. It runs 30% lower salt than any other system, which kills off most corrosion issues. But the real magic? It senses chlorine levels in real time and only generates sanitizer when it’s needed. We’ve been beta-testing it for 6 months—three pH adjustments total. No other chemicals added. That’s as easy as it gets.
Wellis Mandala
Wellis had promise—we even put my son in as a dealer for them at one point. But we’re dropping the line now. They’ve got some automation that makes build consistency decent, but cradle-supported shells, no clamped plumbing, cheaper insulation systems, and the factory support is a nightmare. No one answers phones. If anything goes wrong, good luck.
If you've got a great local dealer who will personally stand behind the product, maybe it’s worth it—but factory-wise, Wellis is one of the worst we’ve dealt with. Not a long-term play in my book.
Jacuzzi J Series
Used to be the king. Still looks good on the showroom floor—until you dig in. The flashy brand means you’re paying extra for marketing, not build. Cradle-supported shells, proprietary parts (especially the electronics), and made in Mexico, which means tariffs hit hard in Canada. Solid spa, but overpriced for what you're actually getting.
So what would I do in your shoes?
I'd go Twilight Series, no question. Something like the 7.2 or 8.25 depending on the size/jet count you want. If you’re running it year-round in BC, nothing beats a full-foam, self-supported shell for energy efficiency and durability.
And yes—we can get you factory-direct pricing, skip the markup, and include delivery, install, steps, cover, and hydraulic lifter in that $15–20K CAD range. We’ll also back you up with our Buyer Protection Service, which means you get my personal mobile number and I get involved if anything ever goes sideways.
Want me to set it up? Or do you have a specific quote or model in mind you want me to compare?
Pete
Jul 12, 2025
Hi. I’ve seen you say a few times that you can get pricing for customers in Europe. What about the UK?
Chris - Admin
Yeah depending what you're looking at I used to live in the UK for 15 years so I've got a lot of contacts here what tubs are you looking at?
Benjamin Rawle
Jul 12, 2025
Can you get me a discount on hot tub? Master 31525
Chris - Admin
Absolutely we can help you get better pricing on any tub out there I'll email you some info.
Andy
Jul 12, 2025
Hi,
Thanks for all the insightful articles. It’s been fun and interesting learning about the intricacies of hot tubs. I’m looking at a Beach Comber 340 Leep series. I was debating between the 550 hybrid model but I’m moving away from the hybrid model and your article helped to validate that.
You mentioned the issue of the non removable skirt but the price of $9500 for the tub seems pretty good. Does the model make up for the skirt issue as a mid range hot tubs?
Chris - Admin
Yeah in general I like Beachcomber spas. But the non-removable skirt is idiocy. They saved about $500 on the fabrication by not having to build a subframe but oh my god when the end user gets a leak it can cost thousands of dollars because you got to pay to have it shipped to a facility where they can fix it. Now there are Bush League fixes where you just got holes in the side of it the skirt. Or you flip it on its side and hopefully maybe get lucky and find the leak on the bottom but the truth is there's loads of horror stories of customers being faced with two and three thousand dollar bills to have tubs shipped to repair centers so is it worth it yeah if you get lucky and don't get a leak no if you get a leak. Unless your local dealers willing to guarantee leak repair shipping costs I wouldn't touch it other than that though it's great. But you're right stay away from the hybrid system the stupid technology is just done for marketing so good reason why nobody else in the industry does this having your pumps outside is great for service but you lose the waste heat from your motors which is huge plus your Motors are in a really under insulated area so you're losing Heat by pumping your hot water outside of your insulation envelope. Add that to the massive risk of your equipment freezing and breaking in a power outage I wouldn't touch hybrid with a 10 ft pool definitely go with the leap series. Do you have pricing?
Ken Wood
Jul 11, 2025
First of all, I really appreciate the wealth of content you offer to help decide on a major purchase like a hot tub! I have learned so much from your website.
After reading many of the reviews, videos & posts to others, I've narrowed down my search to either the Master Twilight series or Instinct (Vital or Pure). The final deciding factor will probably be an Instinct due to our 10k budget. I've already had the pad poured (9' x 8') and budgeted for the electrical, so the 10k is allotted to the spa. I believe that budget ceiling knocks Master out of the running. I like Master's salt option that you have mentioned before in one of your articles but it doesn't look like Instinct offers salt. Instinct uses the ozone method I see, what do you think about ozonation for a spa application? I've had experience with ozone systems in the bottled water industry in my past work. My wife has severe allergies so I don't want to use chemicals. We have a whole house softening system that uses Sodium Chloride and does fine with that.
Since I am by trade an all around tech I pretty much can repair anything thrown at me, it's very important for the tub to have non-proprietary parts. I believe in right to repair! If something goes out like a pump, heater or controls, I want to go find it online and buy it without overpaying or obsolescence from a dealer.
So, a few key items I was looking for in a tub was as you often talk about:
Strong self-supporting shell
Open cell foam
Compression type jets
Standard OEM parts, pumps, heater, controller, etc
Over the shoulder jets in one spot (doesn't have to be high pressure) adjustable?
Salt system (optional) looks like Master does this the best
Ozone water treatment?
Currently it's just 3 of us in the house, probably just the 2 in another year, no parties, so I don't need anything massive, even the 5 person from Instinct is probably overkill, but it seems like to get the over the shoulder option ya have to go bigger. We are both slim people so don't require a lot of forceful jets, even a way to adjust pressure would be helpful!
Thank you!!!
Chris - Admin
Yeah so it was on his great technology and the high-end systems are like you experienced in the water purification industry are exceptional. But those are expensive systems the $200 ozone systems on hot tubs not so much:-) in fact I think they're a waste of time I have done really high-end systems with multi-stage absorption tanks etc etc but those are several thousand dollars. But here's the good news you're dead right that the master Spa salt system is a game changer nobody out there can touch this right now I imagine by next year will have copies but for now these guys are Miles Ahead everybody else the automated testing and On Demand sanitizer is absolutely killing it and guess what the Instinct Spas are salt ready and when the kit is launched in a boat two to three months it'll literally be a plug-and-play install to bring that up to spec to a high-end salt system. It also hits every other point self-supported shell, gluten clamped plumbing, full foam insulation, compression fittings Balboa Control Systems you name it I think it's built like a tank. That was built to our specifications from the largest manufacturer in North America specifically for our clients and offered direct to the public. If we put that through dealer networks it would be $11,000 because we'd have marketing and advertising and brochures and all that other shit that keeps adding on to the price this thing is bulletproof every part can be next day delivered from Amazon all top name brand parts and it's simple to fix right to repair is one of my main battles and we were made sure this unit was built to that specification. My opinion at $8,300 there's not a tub out there under $11,000 that can beat it right now.
Kevin Nesbitt
Jul 11, 2025
Hi Chris,
We are first time hot tub buyers from the Lindsay/Peterborough area in Ontario Canada interested in purchasing a hot tub locally for the sole purpose of getting good service in the event of break down/part failure. Of your 4 top rated brands only Sundance is available from a stand alone store in Peterborough. Do you know if the Master, Jacuzzi or Instinct provide good service in our area if we were to purchase a little further away?
Chris - Admin
Yeah we've dealt with premium wholesale up in Kitchener they're the largest seller of hot tubs in Canada right now these guys do sales all around central Canada and they have installed service teams everywhere so yeah you'd be well serviced in that area. Especially out through us our buyers Protection Service ensures Nobody messes with you :-) and if they do you text me on my private mobile I'll have it sorted out in minutes:-)
I can also get you better pricing through that local Sundance dealer or through the master Spa dealer especially if you keep your details private anytime you're buying an expensive product they're going to try and get your private details and they're going to use excuses like all send you some more information or I'll let you know a special or oh I don't know that right now I'll get back to you just tell him you'll call them back don't give out your personal details you always end up paying more
The Sundance and Master Spas or are in my top three spas. But Master edges him out on a few areas. They both build great shells they both glue and clamped their Plumbing lines they both use Balboa electronic control and heating systems but Master Spas uses a much newer jetting system with compression fittings on the Shelf that's basically eliminated shell to Jet interface leaks which is usually a big concern. Sundance on the other hand is using a 20-year-old outdated proprietary system called fluetics. This uses old two-part jet housings with silicone and honestly with the advances in fluid dynamics over the last 10 years they're nowhere near as efficient as the modern Jet Systems this used to be an advantage now it's a liability. Also Master Spas is made in the US Fort Wayne Indiana oldest manufacturing North America and is privately owned your shipping costs aren't that bad. Whereas Sundance is made in Mexico and owned by a European Equity Investment Company. And they're distributed through the US you're going to get chewed up on tariff charges as they come from Mexico to the US and then shoot up again as they come from the US to Canada :-( also the Problem with Equity investment ownership is these guys know that marketing is King I mean look at our elections nowadays you buy them it's all about marketing and Equity investors know this and on average they spend a thousand to 1500 dollars more per hot tub and marketing and branding then someone like Master Spas that's a family-based business. One's accountants building boxes the other ones people building products and it's a big difference. Have you got any pricing yet? Do you know which models you're interested in?
Angela Coventry
Jul 11, 2025
Hey there, my husband and I are first-time spa buyers located in Southeast Michigan, and we are in search of a high-quality spa that can be used year-round. Specifically, we are looking for a model that offers therapeutic benefits, with seating for a minimum of six people and no lounger.
After reviewing your website, we are particularly interested in the Master Spa Twilight Series 7.25 or 8.25 models. There is a dealer nearby, and we plan to visit their showroom to explore these options further. Before making a final decision, do you have any recommendations for alternative spa models that might meet our needs. Additionally, we are curious to know if you are able to offer a discounted price on Master spas.
Thank you for your time and assistance. We look forward to hearing from you.
Chris - Admin
So you could look at jacuzzi 400 series they would be just below the Twilight jet package and jacuzzi and master build almost identical. They even use the same Balboa electronic control and heating systems. You could probably look at a Sundance high-end tub but again it's not going to have quite as many of the large high flow therapy massage Jets is the Twilight has.
Definitely I can save you some money on your pricing your best bet is not to be in the sellers database. So when you're shopping they'll try and get your personal details the claim things like they're going to send you specials or whatever they'll find some reason just tell him that you'll get back in touch with him and keep your private details out of it then I can get you new customer discounts right through those same retailers:-)
benjamin r
Jul 11, 2025
can you get me a twilight 8.2 for cheaper than a dealer?
Chris - Admin
I can get you almost any job in the market at a discount usually through the same dealers you're talking to. We get discounts from factories wholesalers and dealers alike when you help people buy 30 million dollars for the hot tubs every year hey you know the pricing so nobody gets taken advantage of the I have a lot of clothes so you can protect those customers of your buyers Protection Service and see dealers don't mess around they just give you the bottom line price it's almost never that I can't save you money. Check your emails I'll send you an email Direct
Brian Boudreau
Jul 11, 2025
Hi Guys
I am looking at a second hand (private seller, original owner) 2021 Master Spa Clarity Balance 7 that is for sale for $3500, and it is currently full with water and operating. Can you provide guidance on what to look for? Am I crazy for considering a used spa? I see you really like Master Spas and this may be a good value and if it turns out to be I believe I can transport it home fairly easily/inexpensively.
Chris - Admin
Thats a dope price, buy it fast if Its in good nik its worth around $6k right now (12k new -30% first year -10% for other 3 years...)
Brian Boudreau
Vg thank you Chris. Do you have any guidance on how to inspect a second hand tub and what to look at? ty
Chris - Admin
Honestly I would get a service tech to look it over if you're concerned. But in general you're looking you take the sides off and look for signs of water that might have been leaks should be dry in there look around your equipment you might have a little bit of white buildup around your pump seals but that would be normal on the tub of this age any High corrosion or anything like that that's obvious would be a warning sign that there was a past leak
Steven Vasalka
Jul 11, 2025
What is your opinion of the Master Spas Michael Phelps Legend series LSX 700. They claim this is a great therapeutic hot tub.
Chris - Admin
I prefer the TS 7 series over the LSX but were splitting hairs, both well made reliable high performance spas. what pricing you have?
Dan and Daphne
Jul 10, 2025
Hi and thank you again for your helpful website! Dan and I keep going back and forth between buying the Pure Instinct and the Vital Instinct Spa.
We are waiting to hear from you regarding this purchase as we’d like to include your buyer’s protection service . We will need an 8 x 8 pad - Dan saying he likes one called Easy Pad. Chris recommended we also purchase the hard water filter you sell - an X-10 Pre-filter. When we hear from you, we will make a decision about whether to get the lounge seat or the 4 corner seats - i.e., Vital or Pure Instinct Spa.
Could you let us know how to proceed? Or, if that info is on your website, perhaps you could just send a link. Thanks again, Dan and Daphne
Chris - Admin
So first off Instinct was literally released for our customer to our spec :-) its the only place you will ever hear of it :-)
go without the lounger, second time buyers almost never buy loungers, they take up a lot of space and your floating!!! things like loungers don't add much value :-)
we are just redoing the store but ill email you how to get the x-10 :-)
Walter Ziegler
Jul 9, 2025
Chris,
First time hot tub purchasers, hopefully. Local dealers are Hot Springs, Marquis, Nordic, and Four Winds. Based on research believe we should go with Master or Instinct. The Master dealer for our area is 500 miles away in Florida. We live near salt water marsh. Most likely will use the prefabricated pads for installation. Don’t want lounge seating. Thought we wanted salt water but not sure. Don’t need speakers, WiFi, etc. I like your comments on the Pure Instinct but if there is no way to easily turn off the water feature most likely will pass. Trying to figure all this out seems overwhelming. What are your thoughts?
Bill - Admin
Instinct is hands down the best value on the market and I have (and love) a Pure Instinct. The good news is we just got word this week that there is a control being added to turn the waterfall on and off. If you're interested I can send you an email
Toby Varghese
Jul 9, 2025
Hello Bill. I just went on the Master Spa website with the hope of finding a dealer in the Las Vegas area and did not see any vendors. Can you only by this product from trade show or are there actual vendors that sell the product in the Las Vegas area.
Bill - Admin
In Nevada the market is owned by a huge reseller who primarily does the trade show/expo sales. We can help with something factory direct with local service if you're interested
Bill Graf
Jul 9, 2025
Looking for some advice. I’m looking for a new hot tub and want to keep the price under 10K. Will need it delivered and setup, and would like a 3 year parts and labor warranty if possible. I want a lounger and a tub that sits 4-6 people. I’m replacing my old tub that measured approx. 74” x 74”. I’m flexible on sizing and happy to go larger. I live in Jacksonville Florida and it seems that there are not that many brand options. Of course I’d like a tub with higher quality and reliability.
Bill - Admin
Under 10k with a lounger to fit 4-6 people is gonna be a challenge. Loungers take up a lot of room so getting one to fit that many people means an 8 foot tub and 8 foot quality brands are gonna bust your budget. The Vital Instinct at $8,300 checks all your boxes but it's 4 person max. Tell the others to wait their turn..........:)
Bill Graf
What dealer sells the Instinct hub in the Jacksonville area and would they also be responsible for addressing any warranty issues? Also, I haven’t seen many costumer reviews on these hot tubs. Where can I find them?
Chris - Admin
This tub used to be in retail stores for $11k but we convinced the manufacturer to offer it exclusive to our customers factory direct! its built to our specification the same specs we have been preaching for 15 years with a full self supporting shell, glued and clamped plumbing, compression fittings, full foam insulation and its built by the oldest and largest US maker of hot tubs :-)
Once the stripped out the cost of advertising, marketing, branding, and dealer overheads it dropped from $11k to $8300 and its installed and covered by local service they have a full install service team in that area and its also covered by my legendary buyers protection service, you literally get my private mobile number and if you had issues with the seller you text me and ill step in :-)
if it was in showrooms it would be back up to $11k, besides its a waste of time... go look at hot tubs... they all look great lol and you cant tell any of the important stuff going to see them :-) you haven't heard anything because despite selling thousands there has been zero complaints if there were you would see it lol
Tammi S
Jul 9, 2025
Hello,
My husband and I are looking at the Marquis or Bullfrog, as they are local brands. Service/maintenance is important when/if we need it. The Marquis uses a mineral system versus the salt system. What are your thoughts? We have a Master Spa dealer within 3.5 hours, but I am not certain they will provide great on-site service with that drive time involved. Instinct and Sundance are purchased online. Will they also come to set up, service, and provide maintenance, if needed? The dealers in our area say they will not service a hot tub they don’t sell. Maybe just a marketing pitch.
Bill - Admin
Marquis and Bullfrog are both decent but be careful about pricing - these days they seem to be all over the place. Instinct has service/install techs all over the country so they will deliver to your backyard and come service the tub if it is needed.
Randy Bochek
Jul 9, 2025
Hello Chris, thanks for all the great “first time buyer info” we are looking for a small 2-4 person hot tub. We got a price from Beach Comber hot tubs in Cranbrook BC. Model 009 LEEP, retail $10,711cad , sale savings $2,712, now $8,495. Bad math on brochure, should be $7,999. Your thoughts, I am leary of the none removable skirt. I also see a private sale for a Jacuzzi model J-315 , 2016 Seller is asking $4500cad negotiable propably get it for $4000. Says near mint and up and running. This is about the right size we are looking for but getting a bit old.
Thanks
Randy
Bill - Admin
$4k is a lot for a nine year old hot tub, even a Jacuzzi which is well built!
Beachcomber is solid except for that damn non-removable skirt but that is a good price so ask the dealer to put it in writing that if your tub needs to go back to the shop for repair that they won't charge you for transportation
Randy Bochek
Thanks, I was hoping you would wave your magic wand and get me a better price on the Beachcomber, after reading your remarks about them being so overpriced.
Chris - Admin
its rare but you have done well that price is solid :-) but Bills right, make sure they cover it for leak repairs, the non removable skirt is a shit show...
Randy Bochek
Thanks Chris, actually it is the higher $8,495 price. They are claiming that they gave me a 2024 brochure with the old retail price, hence the higher sale price. Not my problem, seams kind of shady, but I guess take it or leave it. And of course this is the last one in stock at that price, next ones will be $200 more. I am waiting for electrical quote before I pull the trigger.
Chris - Admin
this kind of bait and switch is bullshit and using a $200 bump to create urgency is also bullshit, i hate these sleezy sales tactics.
Toby
Jul 9, 2025
Good Day Bill. 1st of all thank you for all of this incredible information and learning on an important purchase. The factors that I’m big on with respect to any purchase (regardless of price) is design for reliability and the mention of the engineering muscle behind the Master Spa product is very intriguing, so thank you for mentioning that in your Master Spa review. I have some additional questions. What is your thoughts between the following models that we have narrowed down to (2) Master Spa models and (1) Instinct Model; Balance 8, TS 8.2, and Vital Instinct. The follow up questions we have is whether the lounge is worth the spend or not and other questions regarding concrete pad versus pavers being used as a foundation. We are trying to make a smart purchase with the right choice product that has a strong warranty and strong customer service. Your info on this Site is honestly some of the best reviews I have seen on a product in a long time. Trust that I’m a big fan of the thoroughness that you have provided to many of us 1st time Hot Tube purchasers.
Bill - Admin
Loungers are great........for selling hot tubs. They are super comfortable with no water in the showroom but many people float out of them when they have water in them so we recommend that people generally avoid them.
Pavers are every bit as good as concrete, both my tubs sit on a pavers with no issues at all
Toby
Thanks Bill. Would like to hear your feedback between the Hot Tubs we have down selected to. The choices are Master Spa Clarity Balance and Artesian South Seas model. Understand South Seas model 860B has no clamps on the jet side of the plumbing and the use of Sire Grip with glue. But curious about your thoughts on performance and overall value between both models. Master Spa is coming in higher but Artesian Spa has in state Customer Service that we are able to interact with. Just would like to know your thoughts on both models.
Chris - Admin
The pitch for sure grip is pretty slick, its better more expensive hose right? but the reality is hose never fails, lol the connection points do. its a LOT cheaper overall to use the sure grip system and no where near the reliability :-( its Why the top guys like jacuzzi, sundance , master clamp. also the 860B does not come with a full foam system its an additional $500 its standard on the master that's about a grand right there in added value.
both have customer care master has it at the only national customer care at the factory level... and they actually answer their phone :-)
if we arrange your sale with either company you also get out buyers protection service that simply says if you have a problem with the seller we will intervene for you.
Other than that there is very little difference between the two tubs. a few extra jets on the SS but also that old school and the ol dumb ass floor jet to deal with. you only see these on old molds, they are a tripping hazard and a high leak item because people step on them all the time and they are a nightmare to fix, also lots of heat loss through conduction in the floor, usually we see the SS around $9500 and the clarity around $11k they both compare well to the Instinct spa as well which comes with full foam, clamps and is only $8300 delivered and installed.
do you have pricing yet?
Toby
Thanks for the thorough response. Here is the pricing we have in front of us. Southern Seas @ $11500 with tax $12463.12 and Master Spa at $12,000 with tax $13654.79. I understand the clamp versus no clamp risk. I was told that the clamps are being used at the manifold and not used at the jets (with sure grip). I also understand your comment about the center dome that is a tripping hazard as well on the SS. I was told that the 860B is a full foam system at the store so I guess that it is concerning that you say it is not.
The SS is a local store built and serviced by people in Las Vegas and I’m concerned that Master Spa is more national and the customer service will not be as good. Otherwise the pricing is very similar. So still deliberating. Need some help.
Chris - Admin
its totally possible that it has full foam, its not STANDARD on that tub but that does not mean the dealer didn't order it with that upgrade, just double check. its sounds fishy that they are clamping the manifold... why? there is no difference in pressure at the manifold or jet fitting... SLBSTM
retail always pumps this idea that a retail store is needed for good service, its not true, service teams are everywhere now, fewer than 15% of hot tub are bought from these dealers anymore... im gonna email you some better pricing
Sri Sundararaman
Jul 9, 2025
Good day and I hope all is well. We are replacing a very old hot tub in 8x8 ft sunken concrete pad. We have narrowed down choices to Aqualife Restore LS at $7150 from wayfair and Jacuzzi J-375 at $17700. Big difference! Please guide us with your expertise. Take care and stay well, Sri
Bill - Admin
Stay away from the Aqualife, it's a lower tier brand. That's a stupid high price on a Jacuzzi J-375 too. Even in the most expensive markets that should be $15-16 tops. Where are you located? Have a look also at the Instinct Spas. You get the build quality of the Jacuzzi at just over $8k
Sri S
Thanks. Hendersonville NC. Reviewed instinct but only 3 choices shown and I’d prefer option for reclined jet massage with more person capacity. Also “web” describes Instinct/Master as newer manufacturer with shorter track record on products and concerns raised over customer service. Thoughts please. Thanks
Bill - Admin
Sent you an email
Jeff S
Jul 9, 2025
Great forum!!
I have never owned a hot tub but I am considering buying one with the hope that it helps with my aging aches and pains including RA and achy joints. I would like to work with a local dealer in order to have future support if needed and to be able to actually see what I am buying in person. However, the number of dealers within 120 miles of me is limited, thus my brand options are limited. The closest dealer sells Bullfrog - I have read good things about them and their options appear to fit my needs so I am leaning to their A7D model. My other options are a Sundance dealer further away and less responsive - two negatives but not reflective of the actual tub. The closet Jacuzzi dealer is almost 250 miles away so a visit is not on the agenda. Their tubs appear to be the Holy Grail and priced accordingly so I am hesitant to go with them sight unseen.
My questions are - how close (how would you rank them) are the three brands I mention in terms of quality, value and features? Any commentary - good and bad - specific to Bullfrog is especially appreciated. I am 6’5” if that matters and again, am hoping I get some therapeutic value out of the tub. Also - is there a ‘normal’ discount off of the MSRP in this business? I have not been offered a discount by the Bullfrog dealer (I have not pushed it yet either) so I am curious to whether discounting is by dealer, brand or both.
Anything a first time buyer should consider that I might miss? I have had an electrician to my house to confirm feasibility.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jeff
Bill - Admin
You're looking at the right brands - Bullfrog, Jacuzzi, Master, Sundance and Instinct Spas are all top notch brands but I'd put the Bullfrog Spas in the lower tier when it comes to quality muscle massage compared to the others. The jet packs are narrow so they can't hit the sides of your back, etc. unless you're really thin and they divert a portion of the pump flow behind the jetpacks to prevent stagnant water. They are also often overpriced so be careful. I can send you an email if you like to help you with appropriate pricing
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